Bernard Durkan
Question:13. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Taoiseach to report on any British-Irish conferences and meetings that he has attended recently. [29881/23]
View answerTuesday, 27 June 2023
Questions (13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
Brendan Smith
Question:14. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Taoiseach for a report on his attendance at the British-Irish Council summit in Jersey. [30081/23]
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Seán Haughey
Question:15. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach for a report on his attendance at the British-Irish Council summit in Jersey. [30083/23]
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Mary Lou McDonald
Question:16. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach if he will report on any recent discussions he has had with the British Prime Minister. [30732/23]
View answerBrendan Smith
Question:17. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Taoiseach to report on any recent discussions he has had with the British Prime Minister. [30942/23]
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Ruairí Ó Murchú
Question:18. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Taoiseach to report on any recent discussions he has had with the British Prime Minister, directly or at European level. [30972/23]
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Mick Barry
Question:19. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach to report on any recent discussions he has had with the British Prime Minister. [31143/23]
View answerOral answers (8 contributions)
I propose to take questions Nos. 13 to 19, inclusive, together.
I attended the 38th British-Irish Council summit, hosted by the Government of Jersey on 15 and 16 June. The theme of the summit was Building for the Future: Green and Affordable. I detailed the Government’s work to promote sustainable and affordable housing under Housing For All, including in relation to skills, affordability, and vacancy. More broadly, I updated the council on my recent EU and international engagements, including the European Political Community summit. We discussed developments in Northern Ireland, and in particular the events North and South to mark the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. Along with others around the table I regretted the absence of representatives from the Northern Ireland Executive and hoped for an early restoration of the Executive and Assembly in Northern Ireland.
While in Jersey, I met with Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Michael Gove. We discussed a range of issues including housing and the cost of living, the situation in Northern Ireland, as well as the ongoing bilateral relationship. I also had the opportunity to have my first engagement with the new leader of the Scottish Government, First Minister, Humza Yousaf. We discussed the Ireland-Scotland Joint Bilateral Review 2021-2025, which provides an important framework for deepening links between our two countries, our ongoing engagement, our shared learning in a range of sectors, and our economic links.
I also met with the Welsh First Minister, the Right Honourable Mark Drakeford. We discussed our strong bilateral relationship and the positive progress made to date through the Shared Statement and Joint Action Plan 2021-2025, which sets out the ambition and plans for the Ireland-Wales relationship in years ahead. The Irish Government will host the next meeting of the British-Irish Council in Dublin in November.
I met with Prime Minister Sunak in Hillsborough Castle on 19 April where we discussed developments in Northern Ireland and the British-Irish relationship, as well as broader domestic and global challenges. We have spoken since in the margins of the Council of Europe summit in Reykjavik in May and at the European Political Community summit in Moldova on 31 May and 1 June. Our shared priority is the return of functioning institutions that provide services that the people of Northern Ireland need and deserve. In our engagements I have emphasised the value of the two Governments working together in the period ahead in support of the agreement and its institutions. We have also discussed the scope for further strengthening the bilateral British-Irish relationship.
As we know, the British-Irish Council has a brief for the totality of relationships on these islands and can be attended by representatives of the Irish Government, the British Government, the Northern Ireland Executive, and the Executives of Scotland, Wales, Guernsey, the Isle of Man and Jersey. The Good Friday Agreement also provides for a British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference.
This met last week. It was attended by the Tánaiste and the Minister for Justice. It is great that the Taoiseach could attend the British-Irish Council, which met this month also. However, regrettably, not all the institutions established under the Good Friday Agreement are functioning at this time, notably, the Stormont Northern Ireland Executive and Northern Ireland Assembly as well as the North-South Ministerial Council. No political representation from Northern Ireland could attend the British-Irish Council as the Taoiseach said. It is clear the British Government, under Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, is committed to the institutions. Will the Taoiseach advise whether any progress has been made there regarding the re-establishment of the Executive and Assembly in Northern Ireland following these recent meetings? I understand that discussions are taking place between the DUP and the British Government on post-Brexit trade and sovereignty issues. I am sorry for asking again but will the Taoiseach update the House on this matter? Has there been any progress?
Separately, I noted that the House of Lords rejected the controversial element of the legacy Bill this week when the Lords voted in favour of an amendment which would remove the so-called amnesty. Are there grounds for hope following the deliberations of the House of Lords?
Meetings of this sort are a good occasion to float new ideas with particular reference to the degree to which we can assess its acceptability. In this regard, I ask the Taoiseach whether it was possible to do that and to expand on the issues referred to by my colleague a couple of minutes ago to find out whether there was an acceptability of the need to move on and to make progress on the outstanding issues in regard to Brexit, the Good Friday Agreement and the necessity to ensure the sentiments expressed in the agreement continue to the letter and in the spirit in a way that would be helpful to the situation that prevails.
Last week the Tánaiste issued a public statement calling on the British Government to pause the legacy Bill and instead commit itself to a victim-centred justice mechanism set out in the Stormont House Agreement. The next day a Cabinet Minister told the House of Commons categorically that the legacy Bill would become law by the end of July. Political parties throughout the island are united in their opposition to the Bill which if passed will shut down the fundamental rights of families to seek justice through the courts for their loved ones. The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights as well as the Westminster Joint Committee on Human Rights and political partners in the US and Europe have all warned that this legislation is not compliant with international human rights. In a statement last week, the Council of Europe Commissioner for Human Rights warned that the Bill would violate British international obligations and put victims’ rights at risk.
Victims have welcomed the Taoiseach’s and his Government’s comments that they would consider taking an inter-state case to the European Court of Human Rights if this legislation is enacted. Can the Taoiseach confirm whether his Department is preparing to take the inter-state case? Will he consult with the Attorney General on it? At this time it is essential the Irish Government is unequivocal in its commitment to use every legal mechanism or avenue to uphold the rights for justice for all families.
In the 1980s, Margaret Thatcher banned teaching about gay relationships in schools. Thatcher's section 28 laws are infamous today, a symbol of darker times. However, is Rishi Sunak about to turn back the clock? According to The Observer, Sunak is now considering instructing teachers not to use a new name or pronoun at a pupil's request until parental consent has been obtained; instructing schools to inform parents if a young person seeks to change their name or starts wearing a different uniform; and instructing schools to inform parents if a student is questioning their gender. There is much more besides but I do not have time to go into it. As one campaigner put it, section 28 did not mandate that if a 17-year old told the teacher they had been thinking about their sexuality, that that teacher would be required by law to report that to their parents, even if they objected or begged the teacher not to. Will the Taoiseach convey opposition to these measures to the Prime Minister? Obviously, if this happens in the UK people will beat the drum for it to happen here. It is not in our interest for these laws to be implemented.
Earlier, the Taoiseach referred to what he described as “our allies” in NATO. He also mentioned Britain. Of course, we have close connections, huge numbers of English people are here, and they are our neighbours. However, I have to question this thinking because at the moment our so-called "ally", as the Taoiseach described it, has introduced a law that is going to make it illegal for democratic councils in Britain to support the boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign against Israel over its ongoing systematic violation of Palestinian rights, the criminal siege of Gaza, apartheid policies, the illegal annexation of Palestinian territory, and administrative detention. I could go on through the list. It wants to criminalise people engaging in boycott, sanctions and divestment against Israel for those crimes. Should we not raise our voice against that? Should we not question the priorities and ethics of that foreign policy where they jump up and down about illegal occupations, violation and war crimes in Ukraine, but then support a state and try to criminalise people protesting against a state that is doing exactly the same thing to the Palestinians?
I saw that the British ambassador to Ireland has taken a break from Twitter after saying he had been subject to abuse on the basis of his nationality. Obviously, nobody should be subject to abuse on Twitter or elsewhere and people are free to join or leave social media platforms as they wish. However, it is worth noting what he was referring to. He tweeted saying, “Had it not been for NATO operations... many people in the former Yugoslavia and Afghanistan would not be alive today”. That was in response to the protests at the so-called consultative forum. He was met with much correct criticism on NATO, with people making the very obvious point that if it was not for those NATO interventions, many more people would still be alive today. I refer to the war crimes committed by NATO, including the bombing of the television station in Belgrade, described by Amnesty International as a war crime, and the thousands and thousands of civilian deaths in Yugoslavia and in Afghanistan, not to mention hundreds of thousands as a consequence in the Middle East. Is it not fair enough that if someone intervenes in our foreign policy debate that they are going to get a robust response and debate from people?
Deputy Haughey asked whether any progress has been made in recent weeks on the restoration of the institutions in Northern Ireland, the Assembly and the Executive. The truth is that nothing, or very little, progress has been made. Engagement continues between the DUP and the UK Government. The Tánaiste met with the party leaders. Sir Jeffrey Donaldson will be in Dublin shortly for engagements. We are all still talking but it is fair to say that very little progress has been made at this stage. The hope is that the autumn might bring restoration, which we would all like to see because what the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland want to see is the parties form an Executive, form an Assembly, and deal with the enormous problems that face people every day.
I had not heard about the House of Lords' vote. I will check up on that when I get back to the office. If it is the case that it has rejected an element of the legacy Bill, that is welcome. My understanding of the British system is that the House of Commons can then overturn that using the parliament Act. However, it raises the question as to whether experienced Members of the House of Lords are taking this view for a reason.
I reiterate the Government's opposition to the Bill, which is a position shared by the five main parties in Northern Ireland and, crucially, the victims' groups. Any legacy process has to be victim-centred and victim-led. It is important to say the proposed amnesty would not just apply to former British service personnel. It would also apply to crimes and war crimes committed by former members of the IRA and other paramilitary groups. Most of the killings and murders in Northern Ireland were carried out by former members of the IRA and other paramilitaries. We should not forget that, because legacy means holding them to account too and making sure they are brought to justice. The legislation is not yet passed, and as the Tánaiste said and I agree, we are not ruling out an interstate case. We are not at that point yet. This law is not yet on the Statute Book and does not have royal assent.
Deputy Durkan talked about the feeling of the need to move on post Brexit, and that feeling is very much there. When it comes to the Windsor Framework, it is not about renegotiating or tweaking it. It is all about implementation. It needs to be implemented in good faith, and it will be. There will be challenges around that, and we need to work with the UK Government to make sure that happens.
Deputy Barry spoke about some proposals on education in England or the UK. I am not actually aware of them. I will check it out, but I was not aware that those proposals were being made. I would be surprised if they were, quite frankly, but I am perhaps not up to date in my reading of the British newspapers.
I think the reference to "our gallant allies" is actually a reference to Germany, Austria and Hungary, who are indeed our allies, but that was a very different context. In my view, all EU countries are our allies, as are the US, Canada and the UK. We share a common travel area with the United Kingdom. People can live, work, study and access housing, healthcare and social welfare in each other's countries as though we were citizens of both. That is really important for Irish and British citizens alike. We have enormously close trading relationships. Most of us have families in Britain, I think, so we have huge connections to Britain. We help each other out on security, but we do not always agree. We have disputes and disagreements. We had them over Brexit, we have had them over legacy, and we will have them over other things. Being an ally does not mean that we just back each other up all the time. It means we tell each other the truth, often when the other person does not want to hear it. We have had to do that in our relationship with Britain on a number of occasions in recent years, and I know Deputy Boyd Barrett is a very strong ally of Palestine. I am sure in his engagement with Palestinian groups, whether it is the Palestine Liberation Organization, PLO, or Hamas, he would raise issues such as the suppression of LGBT rights in Gaza and the West Bank, the lack of democracy, the treatment of women, corruption and all of those things. That does not make him any less an ally.