Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 18 January 2024
79. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the extent to which he and his Department continue to make extra third level places available by whatever means to ensure that this country’s competence in the technical areas remains at the highest possible level; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1821/24]
View answerThis is a question I have put down on many occasions in the past. I want to ensure that we continue to be alert to the fact that there is huge demand, competition and expectation of competence in the technical and apprenticeship areas. I congratulate the Minister on his tremendous work in that area on the one hand and we must ensure the work continues on the other.
I thank the Deputy for his question and kind words. Planning for current and future public and private sector workforce and skills needs and ensuring an appropriate pipeline of suitable qualified graduates is a particular priority of mine. I say public and private because we need to meet the needs of the economy and to continue to work closely with businesses on upskilling and reskilling their workforce and around providing them with the graduates they need. We also need to ensure we are providing enough graduates to meet the needs of our public services. This is something the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach, Deputy Higgins, often raises in making sure we have enough people to work in the disability sector, including speech and language therapists, occupational therapists and physiotherapists. I look at the full spectrum of the needs of our country, both societally and economically.
In terms of our economy, in June 2022 I announced the creation of over 1,000 permanent places across a range of key skills areas, including: an extra 235 places in ICT; an extra 138 places in architecture and construction; an extra 112 places in engineering; and an extra 27 places in the environment. For the first time, since last September students are able to enter new tertiary programmes outside the CAO system. I believe in this; we were losing people who could be good and passionate in a certain area because they were not good at rote learning in school. You can do your degree, regardless of what you get in the leaving certificate, by being assessed in a different way for your suitability to enter, once you meet some minimum requirements. You start your programme in further education and students then progress seamlessly into a guaranteed place to complete that fully accredited degree in higher education. I am pleased to inform the House that I will be announcing a range of new tertiary programmes for September 2024 in the coming months, including new tertiary degrees in ICT, engineering and science.
Springboard+ and the human capital initiative are also ensuring this country's competence in technical areas remains at a high level. Human capital initiative pillar 2 provides additional places in identified key areas of enterprise skills needs, including science, engineering, ICT and professional construction qualifications. Through the budget, I am investing significantly in our apprenticeship system. Apprenticeships have a crucial role to play in meeting Ireland's skills needs and they significantly contribute to meeting the Government's commitments on Housing for All and our climate action plan. Building on the measures taken in previous budgets, an extra €67 million in investment in our apprenticeship system will grow the number of places from 13,000 in 2022 to over 16,000 this year.
I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply. By way of a supplementary question, I ask the extent to which the Minister continues to liaise with industry to determine precisely the requirements in this area. I recognise that we face increased competition, not only across Europe but across the globe, in our ability to fill those technical spaces throughout industry.
The Minister made a point about people who might not get the points and who might go through a different avenue. I dealt with a case this year of a girl who went through Coláiste Stiofáin Naofa and got the maximum results there. The problem was about getting into University College Cork, UCC, to become part of the physical education, PE, programme and become a PE teacher. The course was oversubscribed, there had to be a lottery and she did not make it. The problem for that young lady is that even if she applies this year, it will be a lottery again. This is a person who has done everything right and followed the procedures. For anomalies like that, can a solution be found for the likes of that young woman? I know she wants to do PE teaching but at the moment she is back in a lottery.
On Deputy Durkan's question, we will liaise with industry in terms of our regional skills forums. This is the mechanism that has been looked at by other countries with a degree of interest. We have, in every region in Ireland, a regional skills forum. They bring together the colleges, ETBs, universities and employers in the region to look at what is needed in the south west or Dublin, for example, in skills provision. That is working very well and we need to continue to do that. I was determined, when my Department was created, that it would not just be another Department of Education but a Department of education and skills in accessing and working with industry on the development and co-creation of programmes.
On Deputy Gould's point, I would be happy to look at that specific issue because he is right on this. At the heart of what we are trying to do, which I know the Deputy and his party support, through our National Tertiary Office, is provide people with another opportunity to get into university. Up until now it has been exactly as the Deputy says; if you do not get the points or for whatever other reason, you can start in further education. You could do well and you may or may not get to progress into the university. The Deputy is right that it is a lotto system. What we have done with the tertiary degree is that you are guaranteed, if you start in further education, that once you meet the necessary standard in the exams you will continue seamlessly into the university.
We have only rolled this out since last September. We have 23 degree programmes where we are providing it and we have written to every university in Ireland, including UCC, inviting them to get on board and to come forward with more programmes. Perhaps this is an area where the ETB and UCC would be interested in developing a programme. I can talk with them about that. We intend to double the number of what we call tertiary degree programmes, degrees outside the CAO, from this September. It is an important issue; we are losing too many good people, sometimes to other jurisdictions, because they find they cannot get the degree place here. There have to be other ways.
The CAO will work for lots of people and the leaving certificate will work for lots of people, but there are other people who would make really good PE teachers, nurses or scientists and they need another pathway, so on this one I agree with the Deputy.
I thank the Minister again. I will follow up by saying it is obvious the degree of consultation he referred to is taking place, but the demand is increasing as well in the form of the need to fill spaces throughout industry. The manufacturers and the employers are facing competition at international level and for us to fill those spaces we need to have the places in college or apprenticeships, or a combination of both sufficient to meet the requirement.
The Deputy is entirely correct. He is in this House for a very long time and knows very well the different challenges that come with different stages of the economic cycle. I remember when I first got elected to this House to serve alongside him when we were dealing with an economy with 15% unemployment. The issue employers certainly were not bringing up with us was the difficulty of attracting staff. We are now in a situation of full employment and the highest number of people ever with a job in the country and therefore we cannot rest on our laurels. It is a much better problem to be in an economy with full employment, but there are still jobs that need to be filled. The Deputy is also correct that we are living in a much more globalised and competitive world. There are other issues like international tax rates, for example, where agreements have been settled, meaning the future economic and social well-being of a country will depend on its investment in its people, namely, on talent, on nurturing people and on recognising not everybody who needs to access the education system is just a school leaver, that more and more people will wish to change careers and more and more people will be in jobs which they think are secure today but that will be disrupted by technology in the years ahead. We need to be able to reach into business, especially our small and medium enterprises because they are perhaps not as well-resourced to deal with this challenge, to announce an SME incentivisation scheme to support businesses this year in upskilling and reskilling their workers.
We are presiding over a massive expansion of tertiary education in Ireland, but it is important we do that in an intelligent and targeted way, that we do it in the areas where there is a skills need for either our public services or industry we are trying to attract to and retain in the country and that we do it in ways that are accessible to all our citizens. We need more university places, more apprenticeships and more tertiary degrees and pathways between further education and higher education, as well as more opportunities for in-work training. Even this week, the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, and I launched new micro credentials for people who are in work. If you are in work, but need a new module of education, that has to provided perhaps in a blended or online way that you can do while holding down your job.
