Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 18 January 2024
82. Deputy Colm Burke asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science what progress has been made in reducing the time period for electrical-instrument and mechanical apprentices to attend college placement at a facility (details supplied) from the date an apprenticeship commences; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2099/24]
View answerI ask the Minister what progress has been made on reducing the time period for electrical-instrument and mechanical apprentices to attend college placement from the date the apprenticeship commences.
I particularly thank Deputy Burke for arranging the very useful meeting that I had recently in regard to the SOLAS and ETB provision in Bishopstown, Cork. I found it very insightful to hear from people on the front line and thank those people working on the provision of apprenticeships for that work.
Apprenticeship waiting times refer to individuals and the length of time that they are waiting to access training. Apprenticeships are national programmes and the equitable management of access to training means that apprentices can be offered placement at any facility which provides the relevant training. The relevant ETB is committed to increasing capacity at the training centre referenced in the Deputy’s question, which is expected to contribute to a sustained and significant impact on reducing waiting times nationally.
Strong demand for the opportunities available through apprenticeships has meant very significant growth in registrations over the past several years. The year 2023 saw a record number of 8,712 registrations, the highest number ever of newly registered apprentices, of which 6,588 were on craft programmes.
Since the Covid pandemic, there have been significant delays arising from time to time, in particular in regard to phase 2 of training, and we have been doing a lot of work on this. I am pleased to inform Deputy Burke that, as a result, we have secured an additional €67 million for apprenticeships in budget 2024. This will enable growth in the craft system from over 13,000 places in 2022 to over 16,000 places in 2024, which is an increase approaching 25%. The actions already taken have resulted in a very significant drop in the number of people delayed in terms of accessing their training. We now have the lowest figure since August 2021, when there was a peak of 11,859 people waiting. That is now down to 3,919 and the figure has dropped for two months in a row. The ETBs and SOLAS have produced a plan that shows the backlog being eradicated during the course of 2024 and there is, of course, an implementation monitoring group in place in this regard.
Several of the mechanical and electrical programmes referenced by the Deputy require increased capacity. This will be delivered by ETBs, as well as temporary provision by other partners.
As the Minister will know, Cork is doing very well in the pharmaceutical industry. Nine of the ten top pharmaceutical companies in the world are based in Cork. The people I am referring to are essential to that area, such as pipe fitters and mechanical apprentices. It is extremely important that we have that number. At the moment, there is up to a 21-month period from the time the person first gets into an apprenticeship to doing the training within the SOLAS facility. That is where the concern is. As a result, it is difficult to attract people to take on these apprenticeships, because they are delayed in getting access to the technical side of the training. Therefore, there is also a concern from the employer’s side as well.
There is a supplementary question from Deputy Mairéad Farrell.
As the Minister is aware, this is something I have had a particular interest in. I note the Minister mentions the increase in the number of places from 13,000 to 16,000. Does he think he will have the capacity to deal with that? We know it has been impossible to deal with the capacity up to now. On that, the Minister mentioned how just over 3,300 people are waiting. Can he specifically clarify what exactly that figure relates to? That is really important. Obviously, we need people to be trained in order that we can build the houses we clearly require.
I also wish to raise a point of information on the number of people who are coming back into the country compared with the number of people leaving the country. I had a look at this because it had been previously raised with me by Fine Gael. According to the CSO, in the 12-month period prior to April 2023, 30,500 Irish citizens left the country and 29,600 returned. That is important to note for the Dáil record.
There is another supplementary question from Deputy Gould.
The Minister quoted figures on people taking up apprenticeships and stated it was a high number. I will give the Minister a figure that was recently released to me. There are only 83 apprentices who are at phase 7 in Cork. There are 14 electricians and 16 plumbers. Cork needs 39,105 houses by 2028 but there will be 16 plumbers and 14 electricians, if that is what we are turning out. These are the facts, because I got them from the Department. These are the facts that I am telling the Minister here.
I have been told that of a class that completed last year, 15 out of 16 of them emigrated. I hope that plumber will be really busy.
Well, of course, they are not the facts, because the facts show me-----
No, Minister. These are parliamentary questions.
I am not doing this.
You cannot stand there now. These are parliamentary questions.
I am not doing this. I am not doing this shouting. If interest was measured in decibels, you would win the contest every time, but we do not need to shout and roar at each other. You asked me a question and I am going to answer it. You might listen.
In the Cork training centre alone, there are 484 apprentices. In Munster Technological University, which is in Cork, there are 160. In Mallow College of Further Education, there are many multiples of the figures the Deputy has referenced. You are talking-----
No, hang on. You cannot stand up in Dáil Éireann as a representative of the people of Cork and tell them there are only a certain number of people in a programme when there are not.
In phase 7 there are only 83 people.
Just stop. You are picking and choosing one phase in one programme.
That is the final phase.
Today, I will send the Deputy the number of apprentices in Cork. I will send it to him. I will send it to the Ceann Comhairle and we can all tell the truth in this place.
I will send on my response to you so you can have it as well.
You do not need to send me my own figures. I have them.
There is no incentive there. Obviously, you do not-----
The Minister without interruption, please.
I thank the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach. I will do that for Deputy Gould today. I will acknowledge the number of apprentices that are in Cork, or for anyone else who wants the figures relating to their constituency. There are more than ever before in this country. There are more than ever before. These are record numbers. There is an issue with waiting times, which is what this question is about, although we have strayed from it significantly.
Regarding the CSO figures, the Deputy is referencing a different period to what I referenced, which is the composite period between 2017 and 2022. Let us acknowledge that, too.
In relation to Deputy Burke's point, I am pleased to say that as a result of the engagement we have had and a result of the significant investment we have made, we are now seeing the waiting times falling for the first time in quite a considerable time. We saw many people being scheduled in the Cork training centre, Munster Technological University and the Mallow College of Further Education just before the Christmas period. I have the figures here, and I can provide them to the Deputy. We saw an extra 353 apprentices being scheduled just before Christmas for phase 2 training, and an extra 291 apprentices in Cork alone. We saw 644 additional apprentices scheduled for training before Christmas in Cork alone. That is quite a high number of people.
I understand the concerns in the industry. We need to get people in and out quickly in order that they can get the qualifications. This is particularly the case in Cork, where there is a concern around the pharma sector. We also need to encourage people to go into apprenticeships. People should know that if they are going into an apprenticeship this year they will be joining record numbers, they will be going into an expanding sector, their fees have been cut by one third and they have a great chance of a well-paid job. With all 73 apprenticeship programmes except for one, apprentices are still completing their training within a four-year programme, which is what an apprenticeship programme is meant to be. I expect very significant progress on waiting times in 2024. We have already seen those numbers reducing for two months in a row.
Briefly, I thank the Minister for the work he has done. There has been a huge improvement in the support for employers taking on apprentices and for apprentices as well.
I will just respond to the issue of the number of people who are leaving the country and those who are coming back in. Some 144,000 have come back in the last five years and 138,000 have left. Those are the figures over a five-year time period.
I should also say that I will get back to Deputy Mairéad Farrell with specific information on the breakdown of the programmes. I am happy to provide that.
Yes, the figure of 3,000.
I thank the Minister. That is very helpful.
