Eoin Ó Broin
Question:5. Deputy Eoin Ó Broin asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage his views on the growing concerns among impacted homeowners with the defective concrete block grant scheme. [15882/24]
View answerThursday, 11 April 2024
Questions (5)
Oral answers (38 contributions)
It is clear that the defective concrete block grant scheme is failing miserably, and 1,300 people turning up in Inishowen to tell their lived experiences is an example of that. There were 500 people at a similar event in County Mayo in the last month. There are many issues with it. It is not 100% redress. Those who are trying to muddle through with this failed scheme are finding it really difficult. They know they need to access finance before works commence. I will ask again a question I have asked the Minister previously: will he amend the scheme to provide upfront payments to allow commencement of remediation or is he simply going to stick his head in the sand as he has done for the last number of months?
I reject completely the charge that we have stuck our heads in the sand. Let us deal with the issue itself, however. Deputy Doherty is aware that in June of last year, I commenced the enhanced scheme through the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022. I remind him that he and his party voted against that enhanced scheme, which would have left residents with a cap of €247,000 on grants instead of €420,000, and would not have included an additional rental property because the previous scheme did not. Therefore, it is the principal private residence plus one additional property. I will come back on a number of other issues. We will be reviewing that. Obviously, as we said, the 12-month review is built into the legislation, which this Government brought forward supported by many Deputies, but not by the Deputy and his colleagues in Sinn Féin.
Really, what is important here is helping residents. I know Deputy Doherty knows that because he is a TD in one of the affected areas. If I look at the trajectory with regard to applications for the Deputy's own county for argument's sake, we have received 1,515 applications to the scheme in Donegal. We received 64 in County Clare, 24 in County Limerick and 367 in County Mayo. The scheme is taking hold. We also have people on the ground through the housing agency to assist people. That needs to ramp up and it is ramping up.
If I look at homes under remediation at the moment, we have approximately 272 homes right now being remediated across the counties. I will give the Deputy the up-to-date figure in his own county of Donegal where we are looking at 129 being remediated, 43 of which are completed. I absolutely want to see that ramp up and increase. We have staged payments through the scheme, as the Deputy will know as well. There are a number of different stages. We are looking to see how we can improve the efficiency within that. However, my job is to help these homeowners to get their homes fixed and, most importantly, to get their lives back together. I have also engaged with them regularly through the implementation group. I am committed to making sure this scheme continues to work for people.
If the Minister or his Cabinet colleague had turned up to the public meeting, which was in his colleague's own back yard in Inishowen, he would have heard very clearly that this scheme is not working. Maybe then the Minister would take his head out of the sand. This scheme is not working. We voted against it because we voted for the amendments the campaigners wanted to make sure it would work. The Minister spoke about how some people are rebuilding their homes, and that is right. Again, I heard the lived experience of a family who have demolished their house. Do you know how much they have to put their hand in their own pocket for to pay to rebuild a house on which they already have a mortgage? They have to pay €100,000. That drives a horse and carriage through the Minister's pretence and guff that this is 100% redress; it is not. If the Minister listened to the real lived experience, he would understand that.
Now, I asked the Minister a specific question. The banks have come to the Government and said they will provide 0% interest because they know that this scheme is not working, and that people need working capital to start to rebuild their homes. The Minister is blocking that. For six months, he has had that proposal and he has not moved on it. I have all the documents from a freedom of information request right here in front of me. The Department of Finance told the Minister that the policy option here is for the Department itself to provide upfront costs. We have said that from day one. The Minister needs to provide upfront costs. Will he do it?
Deputy Doherty knows very well that his constituency colleague - the Minister, Deputy McConalogue - was on European business that evening. The Minister engages with me on a daily basis and advocates in a positive and constructive way for changes to the scheme. He actually made an input into the new scheme, unlike what Deputy Doherty did. I will remind the Deputy that I wrote to him, his party and his housing spokesperson, who is coming into the Chamber, asking for their input into the enhanced scheme. I did not receive one response, even though publicly Deputy Ó Broin said that he would respond and they would make an input into it. He never responded. I know that at the meeting - I got reports from the meeting as well - what he committed to that evening on behalf of his party is the same scheme that we have-----
That is-----
Absolutely not. That is rubbish.
-----proposed, which is for one property and one additional property. I know there was also much discussion around holiday homes and otherwise that evening. I want to make sure that the Deputy did not commit to it that evening either. The reality of it is that it is our job to make this scheme work. It is working for households. It needs to improve-----
You-----
As I said-----
Let the Minister finish, Deputy.
You do not have a clue.
I am sorry-----
I am sorry; I thought the time was up. I apologise, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.
Excuse me for a second. I have said every scheme evolves and this scheme-----
Review it.
-----will be reviewed after the 12 months.
I thank the Minister.
We have upped the cap from €247,000 to €420,000. Sinn Féin opposed that. Let us be straight about that.
The Minister does not have a clue what is happening on the ground. If he or his colleague had turned up, they would know that. There were 1,300 people present, some of whom who could not get into the room and were out on the streets. That is what happened. This scheme is not working. We tabled 80 amendments to the Government's legislation to make this scheme work. Ours is 100% redress end-to-end where people would not have to build their homes on their own. It should be the same way that the pyrite scheme worked.
I put a question to the Minister. A proposal was put forward by the banks. The banks are actually emailing the Minister's Department to talk about the misery and distress that is happening with families because they are in touch with them. They are their customers. They want the Minister to provide either through the banks by 0% financing or with upfront costs. We have said from day one that the Minister should provide upfront costs. The Department of Finance wrote to the Minister in November of last year to say that the policy solution is to provide upfront costs. The Minister is so out of touch with this scheme. He does not have a clue about what is happening on the ground. He does not understand the misery or pain. He stands there and tries to tell me that this scheme is working. I know these people. Some of them are relations and neighbours of mine.
I thank the Deputy.
It is not working. The Minister needs to get his head out of the sand. It is a simple question.
We are over time.
Will he provide upfront costs as an immediate measure, which he was asked to do more than six months ago?
Hear, hear.
I thank the Deputy. The Minister to respond.
We have a number of staged payments through this scheme. What I was saying was that every scheme evolves, and we have evolved this scheme as it moves through on implementation.
It is going backwards.
The figures show we have 1,970 applications to the new scheme. I have given the Deputy the figures with regard to homes under remediation. I want to see those figures increase.
The proposal from the banks about 0% interest finance is with the Department of Finance. By the way, what has also been sought by the banks is a State guarantee on those loans. There can be ways to expedite the initial payments and the staged payments and we will absolutely look at that.
The Department of Finance told the Minister six months ago-----
Sorry, we will absolutely-----
It was six months ago.
A Leas-Cheann Comhairle-----
Through the Chair, please.
We will absolutely continue to look at that.
The work being done through the Housing Agency is very important in helping homeowners, first, apply to the scheme and, second, make sure the scheme works for them. When I inherited the scheme, it was a 90-10 model, with a grant amount of €247,000. It has been changed completely and we are seeing homeowners engage with it. Are there still concerns? Absolutely. Am I committed to working through those concerns? Yes, I am. I work through the concerns on a daily basis with the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, to provide the supports for people. The Deputy has hurled from the ditch on this issue. When he voted against the scheme, he did not even respond-----
We are over time.
The Minister is living in cloud-cuckoo-land.
You opposed it, Pearse.
Cloud-cuckoo-land.