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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 5 Mar 1925

Vol. 10 No. 8

QUESTIONS ON THE ADJOURNMENT. - RAILWAY EMPLOYEES' INCOME TAX ASSESSMENTS.

I want to confine what I have to say to the question of income tax charges against railway employees. I do not want to discuss the Cork proposition or the general question of assessments of income tax. I make that statement, as it is quite possible that other Deputies might want to enlarge on the subject. In his speech on the Finance Bill in June last the Minister for Finance made a statement regarding the Second Schedule, which deals with a large number of repeals. I asked the Minister what was the meaning and effect of that schedule containing repeals of previous Acts of 1916-18. The Minister answered that the repeals were provisions relating to quarterly assessments under previous Acts. He said:—

"The whole business of the quarterly assessments was suitable enough when you had rising wages and when you had quite a number of weekly wage earners by which the amount of income tax would be assessed in the ordinary way according to these proposals."

With that assurance we assented to the section enacting the repeals, so that for the future, instead of having quarterly assessments, as embodied in earlier Acts, the provisions for income tax relating to wage earners would be that they would be assessed in the ordinary way. That was the assurance given by the Minister for Finance. What is the outcome? I have here a circular issued towards the end of January by the Great Northern Railway Company to employees pointing out that the company had been required in the past to furnish quarterly returns of those whose remuneration exceeded £150 per annum. They were assessed under Schedule D, and the company made deductions. The company points out that the Finance Act of 1924 provides that all manual workers are to be assessed for the year 1924-25 onwards under Schedule E. That meant that such assessments will be made upon the company and the amount collected through the wage sheets.

"In the event of the company being assessed on your behalf, I shall advise you in due course of the amount of the tax, and arrange for the necessary deductions to be made from your wages in respect of same."

A later circular, dated the 19th February, simply informs the wage earner or the railway employee that the Commissioners of Income Tax have sent a list of assessments against the members of this company's wage staff, the first instalment of which is demanded immediately and the balance before the 30th June. It states:—

"You have been assessed for £8 18s. 5d., which will be deducted at the rate of 18s. per fortnight. If you are not satisfied with the assessment, you should communicate with the Surveyor of Taxes, as I am not supplied with details as to how the amount is arrived at."

Note the difference. In the ordinary way, as promised by the Minister, the taxpayer will be requested to fill up a form giving the amount of his income, on which there are hints and suggestions as to abatements to which he will be entitled under certain conditions. That form is filled up, and the person is informed at a later stage of the amount assessed against him. What has been substituted is that the company is asked to make a statement of the income, or estimated income, of the workman, and the workman is then informed of the amount of the tax. If he has any complaint to make he has to make enquiries of the Surveyor of Taxes. What is the position of that workman? As far as I can gather all workmen employed by the railway company are deemed by the Acts of Parliament to be unmarried men, without dependents, and working a full year without a break. They are assessed on that assumption, and as having no right to abatements. If they complain that they are assessed too highly they are obliged to make an appeal to the Surveyor, and, in many cases, make a personal visit, which means loss of time and loss of pay.

The Great Southern Railway intimates that they have been obliged to furnish the income tax authorities with an estimate of the earnings for the current year. Apparently the estimate is upon the ordinary weekly pay, without reference to possible overtime, or possible breaks or deductions owing to sickness. The effect is, in the first case I quoted, that the man is assessed at £232, based upon his earnings a year ago. There have been changes in the class of work that person is doing and his actual earnings for this year will probably be £40 less than the actual earnings of the year before. He is assessed as an unmarried man. No account is taken of claims for abatement for insurance, dependents, or anything of that kind. And on the mere notification of the Income Tax Commissioners to the railway company that the tax to be charged against a workman is so many pounds, they begin to deduct at the rate of 2/-, 3/-, 4/- or 5/- per week. As I say, the onus of finding out what amount the assessment was on is thrown upon the workman after deductions have begun to take place.

In at least two cases brought to my notice, after the deductions were made it was found the man was not liable to pay any income tax. In one case a man has been assessed on practically £4 per week, and deductions were begun to be made on the assumption that he was a single man without dependents, with no right to abatement. He happens to have been sick for thirteen weeks during the current year. The assessment is made on the assumption that he is earning this year exactly what he earned the year before. He happens not to be a single man without dependents. He is a married man with a family and is far below the income tax level. He has to lose time to go and plead his case, because he cannot afford to have two or three shillings per week deducted from his wages. He prefers to lose a half day in order to make his case before the inspector.

It seems to me that, if that is the method that the Commissioners are adopting to recover income tax from the employees of railway companies, they are doing injustice to the workmen, injustice to the railway companies, and they are simply going to make their income tax returns for this year appear to be higher than they legitimately should be, because there will have to be very considerable repayments, if justice is to be done, in most of these cases. There is, however, every possibility that, once this money is taken out of the wages paid by the workmen, they are not to get any back. They can, no doubt, combine together; they can threaten to strike; they can down tools and make a mess of things to compel attention to be paid to their grievance. There is no suggestion that they will do that yet, but I can say, from the feeling that has been exhibited during the past three or four weeks, if this kind of deduction is to be made, if there is no consideration to be given to the method of assessment, there is so great a heart-burning amongst these workmen that I would not be surprised to find that they are capable of holding up, or at least of threatening to hold up, the railway services until they find those deductions are repaid.

The method of assessment is not in accordance with the promise made by the Minister. It is not the ordinary way. Before any deduction is made, a workman should have the right to know upon what amount he is being assessed. He should have the opportunity to make his claim for abatements, and when all this procedure is gone through, then, if necessary, the question of deductions can be dealt with. Surely we have the right to ask that the workman who pays income tax ought to have an opportunity of knowing on what sum he is being assessed, and the right to make a claim for abatement in accordance with the law, before any tax is taken from him, especially from weekly wages. The position of a man who is assessed as an unmarried man and has four shillings or five shillings per week deducted for so many weeks to the end of June is one of very great difficulty. You are practically putting him in the position of working for a lower rate than his neighbour who happens to be in the same trade, but who is not working for a railway company. The only difference is that the man in the railway company is presumed to have steady employment. My present complaint is not of the fact that he is paying income tax, but of the method of assessment—the unfair treatment of the workman as compared with any other income tax payer who has right to claim abatement before any tax is demanded from him—that he is considered to be in the first instance liable to the whole of the income tax that would be chargeable if he were an unmarried man and had no dependents.

I ask the Minister's earnest consideration of this matter. I ask him to cease, or give the companies authority to cease, making these deductions until each case has been inquired into in respect to abatements. The companies are placed in the unfortunate position of having made a return of the estimated income and are compelled to pay the tax. Then they may make the deductions at any rate they please from the workmen. They may take it off in one week or three weeks, so far as the law goes. That is unfair to the railway companies, but I leave the railway companies to make their complaint in regard to that. I claim on behalf of the workman that he ought to have the right to have the whole case reviewed before any deduction is made—the right to have abatements made, and to know exactly on what basis his assessment is made before any deduction is made from his wages.

When the Finance Act was being discussed in the Dáil in June last, I protested against the insertion of this clause. I realised that it would not give any return to the State for the amount of money that would be involved by the employment of additional clerical labour in order to have it carried out. If, before inserting a clause of that kind, the Minister had made enquiries as to the number of men likely to be affected, and the wages they would receive, he could at a glance, if he had the correct information at his disposal, have easily seen that it would not mean any additional advantage to, or revenue for the State. According to the last statistical return, touching on the number of employees engaged by the Irish railway companies, the total is given at 28,000, less than 4,000 of whom are engaged in the clerical and administrative sections and who, by reason of their designation, are classed as salaried employees.

A salaried employee is in a slightly different position from that of an ordinary operative or weekly wage-earner on the railways, in so far as under the provisions of the National Health Insurance Act he is guaranteed a payment of three months' salary if he falls sick or meets with an accident. A weekly wage-earner must, and does, suffer loss of pay through absenting himself from work by reason of illness or any other cause. He suffers the loss of a day's pay, or a week's pay, as the case may be be. Taking the average wage of the weekly wage-earner as ranging between £2 10s. 0d. and £2 15s. 0d., and extending that over 24,000 men, I really think the Minister has made a bad mistake. I would like to know from him what has been the cost of the administration of this particular clause and what has been the additional revenue derived from the operation. He might also tell us what extra labour he had to employ in the Revenue Department. I speak as one who has been, for a number of years, part of my time engaged in the preparation of returns connected with weekly wage-earners. These returns have to be supplied to the headquarters of the company and they are then sent on to the Revenue Commissioners.

The operation of this clause, as far as I am aware, has caused a great amount of unnecessary irritation and inconvenience between the employee and the individual who happens to be in charge at the station or headquarters of the company, wherever men are employed. During the last week, numbers of men employed where I work as a part-time employee received a form which I will now read to the Dáil. I received a copy of this form myself. I suffer loss of my pay whenever I attend the Dáil, and that happens over a considerable portion of the year. Consequently, I am in the same position as other employees. The form I received reads as follows:—

"I have received a communication from the Inspector of Taxes, Dublin, informing me that you have not returned Claim Form 38 (Railway) sent on to you some months ago by the Irish Revenue Authorities. The effect of the non-return of this document will be that you will be assessed without being given any statutory allowances you may be entitled to. I shall be glad if you will please fill up and return the document at once in order that credit may be given to you for any abatement to which you are entitled."

How would it be possible for a clerical worker who is instructed by the railway company to make out the return, or how would it be possible for the weekly wage-earner concerned to render a return of the wages he would earn up to the 31st March, a date which we have not yet arrived at? How does the individual know even that he would be alive by the 31st March? How can he find out the loss of pay that possibly would be suffered by him during the period that this form refers to? Deputy Johnson has correctly covered the points that really affect the case he has put to the Minister. So far as this matter is concerned I can speak from practical experience and I can state quite emphatically that Deputy Johnson's argument is perfectly correct. The Revenue Commissioners have adopted the attitude of assessing every individual as if he were a single man earning his full wage for the year. That is an unfair attitude, and especially is it so in the case of clerical workers. They have sent in the form laid down by the Revenue Authorities.

The men I refer to got no form. The clerical workers may have got forms, but those men have not.

So far as I know, the wage-earners, if they received the particular form I have read out, are quite prepared to fill it in. There is no question of refusing to fill it. But I suggest that they cannot fill in the amount of wages they have actually earned until the end of the period has arrived— that is, the 31st of March of this year. I objected to the insertion of this clause in the Act also because I object to the railway company, or the employer in any business concern, being made a tax-gatherer for the State. That is absolutely wrong. It is wrong from the Government point of view to compel such people to adopt the position of unpaid tax-gatherers. That condition of affairs leads to a good deal of irritation as between the employees and the head of the company concerned. I think I am safe in saying that the insertion of such a clause in the Act will mean very little, if any, additional revenue for the State; it will mean a good deal of trouble without gaining anything.

If the Minister and the Revenue Authorities insist on the company acting as tax-gatherers, they should not stop at that. As the company is accepting the position of agent and tax-gatherer, if it tells the employee he is responsible for so much income tax, it should also be left in the position of giving details to the individual concerned as to how the amount is made up. It is very unfair to be sending railway employees to the Castle to Parnell Square, or to Dawson Street, where they have to take their place in a queue and probably wait for hours. They very likely lose their day and may have to come a second day without being able to see the individual who would be in a position to give them information. Possibly after all their trouble it will be found they are not liable for tax, and when the explanation is given the Revenue Commissioners will decide that the sheriffs and other officials need not bother to take furniture away in lieu of payment. As a matter of fact, I myself have got a "red" notice for the payment of income tax. I was told I would be waited upon by some uniformed official of the State to collect an amount of £12 6s. 0d. on a sum of £10 earned income. I have never come across such a case in my life. I aw waiting for the sheriff to have an interview with him and to save myself the trouble of going to 21 Dawson Street in order to find out how they make this ridiculous claim against me.

Will you vote for abolition?

I certainly will. Last year I also got a notice through the company. I did not answer it. First it stated that I owed £12 to the Revenue Commissioners. They assumed I was a single man earning a full salary. I got a second notice and then a rather curt one from the staff officer of the company, so I got up early one morning and went through the salary list to find out what I earned during the year. Instead of paying the Revenue Commissioners £12 I was agreeably surprised to find that I was due a refund of £4. That was a profitable morning's work. I am not complaining about this matter on my own behalf, but I know from personal experience that this is the case with most of the wage-earners to whom Deputy Johnson has referred. If the Minister accepts that he will readily recognise it is impossible for him to pursue these individuals through the companies for money which he will find they do not owe. The highest paid railway supervisory foreman in the operative grades of the Irish railways earns £3 2s. a week. The average wage of porters in Dublin and Belfast is £2 9s. Applying that to 24,000 railway workers, I think you will find that there is a good deal in the argument of Deputy Johnson and in the need for the relief called for by the railwaymen in this matter. I think the Minister will recognise that the majority of Irish railwaymen are a constitutionally-minded body and that they never acted in a manner that would prove that they were animated by the opposite point of view. I can say that what Deputy Johnson has stated is not untrue, and that if the companies are going to pursue this attitude at the dictation of the Revenue Commissioners, undoubtedly in the near future they will be up against an agitation which will be impossible to control, and will mean trouble for the companies and the Commissioners. I ask the Minister to give attention to the representations of Deputy Johnson and to give some undertaking to relieve the situation and not cause the trouble which I foresee will come if the railway companies and the Commissioners insist on pursuing this attitude.

I am at a loss to understand what Deputy Davin means when he talks about a clause being introduced. There was no new clause introduced or no new principle introduced.

I might explain under the British law that up to last year it was for the clerical staff that the companies were compelled to act as tax-gatherers.

There was no new clause. There was a repeal of a special provision introduced in 1916, or perhaps later, which gave a great deal of trouble and caused a great deal of expense and really produced no revenue. That was a system of quarterly assessments. Prior to 1915 workmen were in the same position as other employees of the railway, but, of course, they did not generally come within the limits of taxable capacity or exceed the exemption limit, and they were not charged with the tax. In 1915 the exemption limit was lowered to £130, and at the same time there was a great increase in wages. The system of quarterly assessments was then introduced. That system, although it was very expensive and very troublesome, worked well enough during the period of high wages but when wages fell it became a farce. The system of quarterly assessments carried on for the last few years was really in the nature of a joke, as the amount of money expended on labour in the Revenue Commission for collecting the tax was more than the total amount of tax obtained through that system. It often happened that a man was assessed for two quarters and that after all the trouble of assessment and collection was gone through he fell out of work, so that the tax had to be refunded. Every possible kind of trouble arose in that way. It was felt last year when the Financial Bill was being introduced that there could be no justification for continuing a system of collecting taxes that led to the expenditure of greater money on the labour in the Revenue Department than would be collected. For that reason the section setting up the system of quarterly assessments was repealed. So far as I am aware, nobody thought that that was a bad thing. It was troublesome to everybody who came in touch with it, even outside the Revenue Commissioners. I am sure it was troublesome to the railway companies, to the people who had to supply particulars, and to the men affected. When I said that it would be collected in the ordinary way I was not adverting to anything except that the tax would be collected apart from quarterly assessments, and that no special arrangement would be made for a particular class.

The point is that we had a right to assume that there would be no such special arrangement made for a particular class of wage-earners, when you spoke of the "ordinary way."

No special arrangement is made. The people who happened to be in railway employment, and who were subject to quarterly assessment, fell back into the ordinary position that railway employees had always been in. Quarterly assessment gave them a special position, as it gave a special position to other people subject to assessment in the same way. If you divide the people subject to quarterly assessment into railway employees and non-railway employees, they merely fell back into the position which they were in before the system of quarterly assessment was introduced. Railway employees have for a long time been in a separate position from other employees. I do not know why the system was first established. It dates back to 1860. It may have been because railway companies are given monopolies and special privileges and that it was thought that certain duties might rest on them. But I have not explored the history of the matter and I am not aware of what the cause for establishing this system was. The position was that railway companies were assessed on the income of their employees and that they were given the right to recover the tax paid by them from their employees.

From the clerical and administrative grades.

From all railway workers. The position before 1915 was that those other workers did not come within the tax limit. The exemption limit was £160, and so although they were under this system it passed, so to speak, over their heads. No change was made in the law regarding railway workers other than was made in regard to manual workers who had been subject previously to quarterly assessment.

I was not aware that forms for claiming abatements and allowances had not been given to manual workers. I certainly think they should have been given. I understand that, in the ordinary way, clerical employees of the railway companies get those forms sometime about May or June, before the railway companies send in to the Revenue Commissioners their estimate of the earnings of the men during the current year. I always assumed that the same thing would be done in regard to manual workers as is done by the railway companies in regard to their other employees.

How can a railway company send in a reliable estimate for weekly wage-earners?

If the estimate is wrong an adjustment can be made. I think it will be found that in the case of those who will be liable to tax, estimates which are reliable enough can be given. In any event, the estimate would not reach the Revenue Commissioners in the ordinary way until October. By that time, the railway company should have some fair idea of the earnings of their employees.

Take the case of shop men, who are very often irregular in their work.

In any case, they would know at that date, when more than half the year has passed. Only the first instalment of the tax would be paid during the year—before the 31st March—so that if a man is given his form to claim abatement for dependants in May or June, there is no reason why he should be charged any more tax than he is really liable for. I can only say that if there has been any failure in the machinery to work— as it would seem there has been failure, as the men did not get their forms—it may have been due to the application of this system afresh to these particular men, and we will see in the future that these men will get the forms. In the ordinary way, I think forms in the past were given to the company to be distributed to the employees, instead of sending them direct to the persons concerned. That, however, is only a matter of method. We can see for the future that these forms will be supplied so that the men will be able to claim these abatements for dependants. If that is properly done, I think you will find that the number of railwaymen who will be liable for any tax at all will be very few indeed.

You will find that after you have made the deductions. That is the grievance.

I do not know whose fault it was that these claims were not made, but the duty lies on the taxpayer of making his claims.

Let me give an instance to the Minister of a case where a man applied for a form, filled it in and sent it in in February. Notice was given to him in January that such a deduction would be made, and he sent in this return in February, showing that his earnings were far below the tax limit. Nevertheless, deductions have been made from him of 3/- from week to week for several weeks.

Does the Minister realise that he compels the railway company to send an estimate when the only estimate they can send in is the wage that the man is to have if he works the full period, and that that is unfair?

Well, of course, that is the general system all along. I do not think it works unfairly, because it can be adjusted long before the second instalment of the tax comes to be paid. The second instalment is never paid within the year. It will not be paid by the railway company, and I think the matter can be adjusted, so that no man will suffer a deduction beyond what he has to suffer except through some exceptional circumstances arising. In regard to the man who did apply already the machinery was in operation. It is the railway company that deducts from him. If Deputy Johnson will give the name afterwards I would take it up as a sample case and examine it in detail, so as to see just how such a case could be remedied, why such a case occurred and how it could be avoided in the future. I was not aware until Deputy Davin spoke to-night that there were great grievances in the case of clerical employees. I thought that people like them find it better to have their income tax deducted by a series of instalments than if they had to pay large sums together and perhaps be prosecuted for arrears that had been allowed to accrue. I find that wage earners find it better to have it deducted in this way than to be called upon to pay a lump sum at once.

The Minister misunderstood me. I was referring to wage earners, not to clerical employees.

The position need not be more onerous in the case of wage earners than in the case of clerical employees. In the cases that have arisen I do not know whether there is any fault so far as the employees themselves are concerned. Deputy Johnson says that he did not get the forms. I am not in a position to say that they did get the forms, but I know that very often people do not fill up their forms. They throw them aside and take no notice of them, and then they have a grievance afterwards if they are not given the allowance that they should be given. That may well be the case in regard to some of the people. Really, if people get forms and do not fill them they have nobody to blame but themselves. The Revenue Commissioners do not know the man intimately or know his circumstances, or know whether he is married. If he had a wife last year she may have died since. They have no way in which to make allowances for people who do not fill up their claims. If there has been failure of the machinery we hope to remedy that failure in the future. If they have not got the forms I can only promise that arrangements will be made in the future by which they will have the forms in good time to get the allowances. I will make the arrangements necessary to expedite the adjustments and to expedite refunds in the case of people who are not liable, and adjustments in the case of people liable, but who have been assessed for larger amounts than they are due to pay.

Whatever trouble there is in connection with this system, it is a system that causes less unnecessary trouble, once it is properly in operation, than that absurd quarterly system it replaces. I can say that there is no justification for continuing the other system. I do not think this is a system which would work unfairly at all if operated as it should be. I was going to say when Deputy Johnson rose that the number of workers who will really be charged a tax, if the forms are properly filled, is small. If a man is married he will pay no tax on an income up to £250 a year. A single man with £250 will pay about £11 tax, which, if deducted well over the year, will not be a heavy burden. People who are married and have families would, if manual workers, not, I think, be liable for the tax at all. It practically comes down to a certain number of single men who are in comparatively well-paid jobs.

You will find it will be too expensive.

I do not think there is any great expense involved.

Would the Minister consider the advisability at a future date of having a conference between the Revenue Commissioners and representatives of the companies and the men, so that suggestions might be put forward to simplify the procedure and remove irritation?

I cannot give that promise at the moment. I will consider the suggestion and investigate the position, and if I see anything that might be cleared up by a conference I will not hesitate to call such a conference. If what is wrong is that the machinery is rusty, or in some way or other not put into operation properly, then I can only see that the men will get their forms in proper time, and that assessments will not be made on men who are not liable to pay taxes. If it is a matter of getting the system to work properly, then there will be no trouble at all.

The Dáil adjourned at 8.45 p.m., until 12 o'clock on Friday, March 6th.

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