asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce whether under the Shannon (Siemens-Schuckert) contract the estimated cost of material and the cost of transport of machinery from Germany to Limerick includes delivery on quay or on rail at Limerick or Long Pavement or at the works.
CEISTEANNA—QUESTIONS. ORAL ANSWERS. - SHANNON SCHEME ESTIMATES.
TOMAS MAC EOIN
The contract does not contain separate items for the cost of material or for the cost of transport of machinery.
Will the Minister refer to page 79 of the Experts' Report and say whether it is correct? The Report states: "The unit prices mentioned include social obligations (insurances, etc.), general expenses and contractors' profits, but do not include the cost of the building machinery. At the end of each section of the estimate, items are given covering the transport of the machinery, back and forward, and the cost of its hiring and maintenance."
The Deputy has asked me about a contract. I have given an answer to that. I must repeat what I said on a former occasion. These supplementary questions involve technical details, which I cannot deal with at a moment's notice, and as the Deputy has announced himself as an enemy of the scheme, and as his colleague has stated that he will use legal and illegal methods to prevent its going through, I cannot answer these supplementary questions.
Are we to take it that the Minister is refusing to answer a supplementary question?
On the grounds stated.
If a Deputy puts a supplementary question which you, a Chinn Comhairle, allow, we must assume it is in order. Are we to assume that a supplementary question put by a Deputy and allowed by you, sir, is not to be answered by the Minister.
I have given my reasons.
A supplementary question may be put and may be in order, but a Minister is not compelled to answer it. He may ask for notice, for example.
I have done that.
Will the Minister say whether the contract made is quite irrespective of the estimates given?
I have asked for notice of all supplementary questions on this point.
Perhaps the Minister will tell us that he does not know anything about the scheme.
I will say nothing of the sort.
Will the Minister answer the question I put on the Paper?
I have answered the question. I will read the reply again. (Reply quoted.)
Is the contract made on the basis of the estimate reported on by the Experts?
I have been asked a question regarding the contract and I have answered it. I have to ask for notice of supplementary questions.
I beg to give notice that on the motion for the adjournment I will raise the question of the refusal of the Minister to answer questions——
It is not a simple refusal. It is a refusal on grounds stated.
It is a definite refusal to inform the House of the terms under which a £5,000,000 contract has been made.
It is a refusal to people who say that they will use legal and illegal methods to prevent the carrying out of the scheme.
Has not the Minister stated that he will refuse to answer supplementary questions on the Shannon scheme?
On account of what has been stated by Deputy Morrissey, that he will use legal and illegal methods to prevent this scheme being carried out.
This will all arise when the matter is being discussed on the adjournment.
TOMAS MAC EOIN
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will state what is the proportion of the total estimated costs under the Siemens-Schuckert contract which come within the categories (a) Cost of transport of the machinery backward and forward, (b) Cost of its hiring and maintenance referred to on page 79 of the Experts' Report.
Separate items for the categories mentioned are not included in the contract.
Will the Minister give us any enlightenment upon the source of the contract and state in what part of the estimate, if any, this contract price can be found?
I ask for notice of that question.
I want to ask, a Chinn Chomhairle, whether it is in order for the Minister to refuse to answer questions put by Deputies on grounds such as those he has stated.
The position as regards this matter is that questions can be put down to a Minister, if they are in order, and supplementary questions can be put by any Deputy, subject to my ruling as to their number and relevancy. I have no power to compel a Minister to answer either a question on the paper or a supplementary question. Dissatisfaction with the Minister may be expressed in other ways.
Am I to understand that the Minister is quite free to refuse to give any such information as is asked for here and, in the course of that refusal, that he is free to insult Deputies?
If I have insulted a Deputy, I want the insult pointed out. If I have made criticism of a Deputy and if that criticism is justified, I do not consider it an insult.
Are we to assume that each and every Minister can take up the attitude that he will refuse to answer supplementary questions——
To people who say that they will use legal and illegal methods in a certain direction——
The Minister must allow Deputy Morrissey to proceed.
Perhaps the Minister will keep his mouth shut for once.
As it is so nicely put, I shall.
If that is the position, what is the use of allowing Deputies the right or privilege of putting supplementary questions? What good is this privilege if Ministers take up a stone-wall attitude and say, "We will not answer any supplementary questions?"
I suggest that if the Deputy had not made wild and whirlwind statements he might——
Mr. O'CONNELL
He is not the only one who made wild statements.
The Minister's conscience is troubling him.
"Legal and illegal methods"! The use of that phrase does not affect my conscience.
The Minister cannot now continue an argument on this question. As to Deputy Johnson's question, the Minister can refuse to answer supplementary questions. The Minister cannot insult Deputies without being called to order by the Chair. Deputy Morrissey's question is really not a question for me.