Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 3 Feb 1926

Vol. 14 No. 4

BANKING COMMISSION.

Mr. BLYTHE

I wish to announce to the Dáil the names of the members of the Banking Commission which is about to be set up.

The following are the names:—

Professor Henry Parker Willis, of Columbia University—Chairman; Senator Andrew Jameson; Mr. J.H. O'Connell, National Bank, Dublin; Mr. F.J. Lillis, Munster and Leinster Bank; Mr. Lionel Smith-Gordon, Industrial Trust Company of Ireland; Mr. C.A.B. Campion, late of the Commonwealth Bank of Australia; Mr. R.K.L. Galloway, Ulster Bank, Belfast, and Mr. J.J. McElligott, of the Department of Finance.

The following will be the terms of reference to the Commission:—

"To consider and to report to the Minister for Finance what changes, if any in the law relative to banking and note issue are necessary or desirable, regard being had to the altered circumstances arising from the establishment of Saorstát Eireann."

Professor Parker Willis is sailing from New York on the 20th instant and the Commission will begin its work immediately after his arrival, that is to say in the first week in March.

Mr. SHAW

Are not all those representatives of commerce as distinct from banking?

Mr. BLYTHE

There is not much distinction in this country.

Mr. SHAW

There does not appear to be any representation on that Committee of the people who deal with the banks. I should like to know if it would be possible for the various people dealing with the banks to have an opportunity of bringing forward the very great number of grievances this country is suffering owing to high rates and various other matters which might be put before that Committee.

Mr. HEFFERNAN

I should like to know whether we could have a discussion on the appointment of this Committee. It is very important and I think the Dáil should have an opportunity of discussing it before they sanction the appointment of those men.

Mr. BLYTHE

The Dáil is not asked to commit itself in any way on the matter. I am only informing it of what the Government proposes to do with regard to the other matter, and persons who have anything to put up can do so. It was not thought that inexpert representatives of the general public should be appointed on this Commission. Members of the Commission represent different interests and it will be for them to consider any recommendations that come before them and to present either an agreed report or a majority and a minority report as they think fit to do.

Mr. BAXTER

Would not any evidence to be advanced before that Commission have to be within the terms of reference, and does not the Minister think that the terms of reference for a Banking Commission for this country such as those are rather restricted?

Mr. BLYTHE

No, they are the widest possible.

Mr. JOHNSON

Is it not the case that a Commission dealing with the possible evils of the banking system and composed of people interested in the banking system is likely to lead to a curious development?

Mr. BLYTHE

I do not think that is a correct description of the personnel of the Commission.

Mr. SEARS

I think there is a general feeling that the Commission does not represent sufficient interests to inquire into this great subject. Most of the men named are bankers. It is not the banking industry of this country that is in a bad way. It is in a good way. It is the country that is in a bad way, and the banking system in this country as carried on at present is responsible for much of the depression that exists. How will those gentlemen propose to remedy the situation? They will not propose amalgamation. You have in every town in Ireland four or five banks doing business that might be done by one bank across a six-foot counter.

Mr. GOOD

There would be no competition then.

Mr. SEARS

Deputy Good has raised an important point. Does Deputy Good say there is competition now? I say there is no competition, and Deputy Good knows it well.

Mr. GOOD

I am afraid the Deputy is not an experienced banker.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

When a Minister appoints a Commission or Committee, it is usual for him to announce the Terms of Reference and personnel to the Dáil. The sanction of the Dáil is not being asked, but questions may be asked of the Minister. Deputy Shaw, Deputy Heffernan and Deputy Johnson asked questions. Deputy Sears was making a speech and Deputy Sears will realise that he is making a speech and that Deputy Good is going to make a speech. How are we going to go on with the Orders of the Day?

Mr. SEARS

Will not an expert be appointed on that Commission who will represent the depositors?

Mr. BAXTER

Would the Minister now give the Dáil his opinion about the interpretation of the terms of reference? It seems to me that the matters that will be submitted to the Commission will centre largely around the question of the issue of bank notes, and so forth. I notice that the Minister shakes his head. He may be clear as to what the Commission is going to do, but people will want to know what it is going to do, and what exactly the terms of reference mean, how wide the scope of the inquiry will be, and what evidence can be submitted within the terms of reference. I would like to hear more from the Minister on these matters.

Mr. HEFFERNAN

Would the Minister consider it advisable to give the Dáil an opportunity of discussing the appointment of this Commission, its terms of reference, and its personnel? It seems to me that the personnel consists altogether of bankers. There is, however, a feeling in the country, which has been expressed by Deputy Sears, to the effect that other people, apart from bankers, should be represented on the Commission. We who are interested in agriculture would like to see our industries strongly represented, and we would also like to see representatives with a knowledge of agricultural credit appointed on the Commission. The real difficulty, so far as we are concerned at present, is the provision of agricultural credit. So far as I can speak on behalf of our party I may say that we are not satisfied with the terms of reference.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

If the Deputy gives four days' notice of a motion he can make a speech on this matter on any Wednesday from 7 to 8.30 p.m.

Mr. HEFFERNAN

I have not got four days' notice of this.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

The Deputy is apparently ignorant of his rights as a private member. He can give notice and, after four days, can speak on this question on any Wednesday from 7 to 8.30 p.m.

Mr. HEFFERNAN

May I give that notice now?

Mr. BLYTHE

I may state that the terms of reference are so wide that anything the Commission wants to discuss can be discussed.

Mr. BAXTER

Is it anything that the Commission wants to discuss, or that the people want to put before it— which interpretation is right?

Mr. BLYTHE

The Commission will, of course, have to regulate its own procedure.

Mr. HEFFERNAN

Is there any banker on the Commission with a special knowledge of agricultural credit?

Mr. BLYTHE

Yes, one of the very best men that could be got.

Mr. HEFFERNAN

Who is he?

Mr. BLYTHE

Mr. Smith-Gordon.

Mr. HEFFERNAN

I mean apart from an Irish representative.

Mr. BLYTHE

We could not have seven or eight people representing special interests.

Mr. D'ALTON

I think that Deputy Baxter's statement is very important. It is very important to know whether it would be possible for the various interests in this country to be in a position to submit their views and to have those views considered. I would press strongly in support of Deputy Baxter's statement.

Mr. BLYTHE

Banking is a technical matter, and a Commission composed of men not competent would be of no value. As to the question of people coming before it, that will be a matter for the Commission. We desire to have a body that will give us a sound report and not a body that will afford opportunities for making demonstrations.

Captain REDMOND

In view of the Minister's statement as to the wide terms of reference, will he consider the advisability of postponing the remaining stages of the Coinage Bill so as to allow the Commission to give an opinion on that question?

Mr. BLYTHE

I am quite satisfied as regards the Coinage Bill.