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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 27 May 1926

Vol. 15 No. 21

IN COMMITTEE ON FINANCE. - VOTE 52—OFFICE OF THE MINISTER FOR LANDS AND AGRICULTURE.

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £281,164 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1927, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí Oifig an Aire Tailte agus Talmhaíochta agus seirbhísí áirithe atá fé riara na Roinne sin, maraon le hIldeontaisí i gCabhair.

That a sum not exceeding £281,164 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1927, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Lands and Agriculture, and of certain services administered by that Department, including Sundry Grants-in-Aid.

I have been asked to make a statement explaining not only the Estimates for my Department, but also its general policy. In addition to that there is the consideration that on a few occasions during the last two or three months, when agricultural debates were suggested, I expressed the view, and it was approved by the Dáil, that these matters should be deferred until the Estimates were being considered. For that reason my statement now will take some time. The gross vote for the Department of Agriculture is £548,652, and the net, as shown on the Estimate, is £421,164. This latter figure is obtained by deducting all the Appropriations-in-Aid, namely, £127,488 from the gross figure of £548,652. These Appropriations-in-Aid include receipts from rents, sale of agricultural produce, students' fees, repayment of loans, and fees paid under various Acts, but they also include grants amounting to £58,650 from the Local Taxation Account, the Church Temporalities Fund, and Estate Duties, and this figure of £58,650 should be added to the net Vote of £421,164, making a total of £479,814 in order to get a correct view of the expenditure provided for on this Vote in respect of the Department of Agriculture. There should also be added the sum of £40,673 provided for on other Votes to meet rates, provision of office accommodation, stationery and printing, superannuation allowances, and Post Office services. This brings the total net cost of the Department of Agriculture to £520,487.

For the purposes of a general survey, as well as for analysing expenditure, it will be convenient to consider the true net figure which appears on this Vote, namely, £479,814, and to omit the items for rates, stationery, buildings, etc., which are accounted for on other Votes and which can be dealt with in detail in the course of the discussion. A general idea as to how this amount of £479,814 is spent may be obtained by grouping certain sub-heads and giving round figures which are approximately accurate, and can be easily remembered. Sub-heads A, B, C and D may be grouped together under the heading of Expenses of Headquarters' Staff. The Vote under these sub-heads amounts to £125,404 and represents almost entirely salaries and travelling expenses of the Headquarters' Staff, including not only the clerical, but the general inspectorate and technical staff of the Department.

Sub-heads E (1) and E (2) Technical, Advisory and Research Work; E (3) Subscriptions to International Research Organisations; E (4) Special Investigations and Reports; F (2) Grants to Private Agricultural Schools; F (3) Veterinary College; F (4) Grants to Universities for Teaching in Agriculture; F (5) Supplementary Scholarships; K (2) Contribution to I.A.O.S.; L, Botanic Gardens; M (1) Miscellaneous Work; M (2) Fees for Reports on Agricultural Conditions; M (3) Special Departmental Publications, Leaflets, etc., may be grouped together under the head of "Education," costing £64,964 gross, and about £62,214 net. To these, however, should be added sub-head F (1)—being the Six Agricultural Institutes of the Department, costing £46,830 gross, and about £21,630 net, and finally, the new sub-heads P and Q—being grants for the establishment of Agricultural Faculties at the University Colleges in Dublin and Cork, and amounting to about £69,822, making a net total for Education of approximately £153,666.

Sub-heads H (1) and H (2) amounting to £89,200 may be grouped together as grants to County Committees of Agriculture for their educational, livestock, and other schemes. These sums are paid as grants into a fund called the Joint Fund, which includes not only these grants but the amount raised by rate by the County Councils for agricultural purposes. Last year the contribution from rates amounted to about £30,000. This year it will be about £32,000.

Sub-heads G (1) Improvement of Flax Growing; G (2) Improvement of Milk Production; G (3) Improvement of Live Stock; I, Special Agricultural Schemes in Congested Districts; K (1) Agricultural Societies and Shows; M (4) Loans for Agricultural Purposes, amounting in all to £83,611 gross, or £58,696 net, may be regarded as in respect of work done directly by the Department analogous to that administered by the Department through the County Committees of Agriculture. As will be seen from an examination of the sub-heads, this money is spent mainly on the improvement of live stock and live-stock products, by giving extra premiums for bulls and boars; by leasing bulls and stock pigs; by selling bulls, pigs, and horses at reduced prices for stock purposes; by paying a proportion of the expenses of the Cow Testing Associations, and by lending money for the purchase of stock animals. These schemes are, to a large extent, confined to the congested districts. The work done by the County Committees of Agriculture in connection with live stock is on similar lines, and the position is that, so far as county committee and supplementary schemes are concerned, they are financed out of taxation to the extent of £148,000 and by local rates to the extent of £32,000.

Sub-heads N (1), N (2), N (3), N (4), O (1), O (2), O (3), O (4), O (5), O (6) and O (7) may be grouped together under the general heading of "Control." They deal with the Diseases of Animals Acts, Weeds and Seeds Acts, Fertilisers and Feeding Stuffs Acts, Destructive Insects and Pests Act, Sale of Food and Drugs Act, and, finally, the three new Acts relating to agriculture, viz., Agricultural Produce (Eggs) Act, the Dairy Produce Act, and the Live Stock Breeding Act. The cost of these control services is £68,816 gross, or about £53,343 net. Of this £53,343 the three new Acts cost £35,800 gross, or £23,800 net. The largest deficit is in connection with the Dairy Produce Act.

Summing up, therefore, the costs of the various departmental services are approximately:—

Headquarters

£125,000

Direct Educational Services

£154,000

County Committee Schemes and Supplementary Schemes

£148,000

Control about

£53,000

Total

£480,000

There are a few observations necessary in order to complete the picture. The Headquarters Staff includes not only clerical but technical officers, and in the latter category are included technical officers who spend most of their time in the country. For instance, under the heading of General and Technical Outdoor Staff there are a number who spend most if not all, of their time in the country, and these alone cost about £28,000. Secondly, it is extremely difficult to draw a clear distinction between educational and other schemes. For instance, I have set out as the cost of "Direct Educational Schemes" administered by the Department the sum of £154,000 and I have grouped separately the work of the County Committees of Agriculture and schemes of a similar nature, which cost approximately £148,000. I have explained that these county committee and supplementary schemes are, to a considerable extent, concerned with live stock and live-stock products, but they are also to some extent educational. The provision includes part of the cost of the Instructors of the County Committees of Agriculture and the whole cost of certain of the inspectors and overseers of the Department. The duties of these officers are not only to administer the live stock schemes, but also to carry out experimental work in connection with the cultivation of potatoes, flax, and crops of all other kinds, in addition to conducting manurial experiments, feeding experiments, winter agricultural classes, and to act as advisers of any and every farmer in their districts who wish to requisition their services.

Again, I have grouped the agricultural institutes as educational. These institutes are, of course, to a very large extent, educational, but in addition, the live stock bred on the farm attached thereto are used to supplement the live-stock schemes which are provided for under a separate sub-head. It would be easy to make quite reasonable suggestions, tending to show that the grouping which I have adopted might be altered. It might be said, for instance, that the Botanic Gardens or the contribution to the I.A.O.S. should not be grouped under the heading "Educational," and that the services which are paid for out of these sub-heads could be more properly grouped with some other services or as separate services. This is a matter of opinion. My concern is, in the first instance, to try and analyse expenditure in a general way and under convenient and easily remembered headings.

The Department of Agriculture is staffed as follows:—There are roughly 190 clerical officers, 250 technical officers (including agricultural overseers, assistant overseers, flax instructors, cow-testing instructors and potato demonstrators), about 190 wage-earners —employed in connection with the various institutions, at the ports, etc. —making a total of about 630. In addition to these, not exactly employed by the Department, but to a certain extent controlled by it, there are 144 officers employed by County Committees of Agriculture, and also certain temporary men employed for short periods each year in connection with the operation of Acts, such as the Live Stock Breeding Act, the Weeds and Seeds Act, etc. Of the 144 County Committee Officers, about 29 are paid in whole by the Department, and the remainder are paid partly out of grants made by the Department to County Committees, partly from moneys voted by the Dáil on the Department's Estimates for bonus, and partly from moneys raised locally by rate. New or additional services appear on the Estimates in connection with Sugar Beet, the I.A.O.S., University Education, Live Stock Breeding Act, the Agricultural Produce (Eggs) Act, the Dairy Produce Act, and Live Stock Schemes, and the total cost of these new or additional schemes is about £130,000.

The Dáil went out of Committee.
Progress reported. Committee to sit again on Friday, 28th May.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.25 p.m.
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