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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 22 Jun 1926

Vol. 16 No. 14

IN COMMITTEE ON FINANCE. - VOTE 21—MISCELLANEOUS EXPENSES.

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £4,743 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1927, chun Costaisí Ilghnéitheacha áirithe, maraon le Deontaisí áirithe i gCabhair.

That a sum not exceeding £4,743 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1927, for certain Miscellaneous Expenses, including certain Grants-in-Aid.

There is this year an increase in the grant-in-aid of the Royal Irish Academy, amounting to £600. The Royal Irish Academy has a very valuable library, and the funds of the Academy have not been equal to keeping that library in repair—keeping the books bound and binding new proceedings and new books which have been acquired. The Academy has had practically the same grant since about 1870. although the value of money has fallen very considerably. The addition made this year will not enable more than a beginning to be made in putting the library of the Academy into a proper condition. The library of the institution is always available to members of the public who are able to use it and who are desirous of using it. The Academy has available great numbers of scientific publications from all parts of the world—publications which could not be obtained otherwise, because the Academy is an old foundation and its exchanges enable it to have these publications available. I think that the £600 increase which has been given this year is really a very small increase in the circumstances. It is very little towards putting the Academy into the position in which it was pre-war from the point of view of assistance from public funds.

Before dealing with the sub-heads I would like to urge again on the Minister the advisability of removing two of these sub-heads and placing them under the Votes which come under the purview of the Minister for Education. I think that sub-heads C and D would be more properly placed under the Vote for Science and Art. One has only to look at them to realise that it would surely be more appropriate that they should be placed under the control of the Minister for Education, particularly when we see it stated here that it is the Minister for Education who recommends this grant under sub-head D. I am very glad that the Minister has increased the subsidy for the Royal Irish Academy. It is, unfortunately, both too much and too little. It is not sufficient to place the Academy on a proper footing, and I hope that within the next few years the Executive Council will seriously consider the advisability of establishing a proper Irish Academy, fully equipped with funds, which the present Academy is not, and therefore cannot have the same authority in the country as a real national academy would have.

I put down an amendment to this Vote this afternoon, but the Ceann Comhairle would not accept it, as the notice was insufficient. I intended to move the reduction of this Vote by £500 in respect of sub-head B, the grant to the Abbey Theatre. The Minister did not refer to the fact that this grant has been increased from last year; that the taxpayers are now asked to provide £1,000. It is a grant in aid, but we are given no information as to why this sum is needed. The public have no knowledge of the financial position of the theatre, and as to whether this money is really necessary or not. One would have thought that when this proposal was put forward we should be given reasons for it. We got no reasons; we are simply asked to subsidise this theatre, although for all we know it may be in a most flourishing financial condition. The accounts of the theatre do not come before the Auditor-General, and we have no idea how this £1,000 will be spent. I would have liked to move this reduction for the reason that if any money is to be spent by the taxpayers on the Abbey Theatre it should be spent in the first place in giving the actors and actresses a living wage, which has not been the case in the past. I understand that for many years they have been paid starvation wages, and Ministers and Deputies, including Deputy Johnson, have supported the theatre, in spite of the sweated labour employed there. I think it is high time, if the taxpayers are to subsidise this theatre, that at least the first people to benefit should be those who have made the theatre and made its reputation, the actors and the playwrights. I understand that the royalties paid to the playwrights are so ridiculously below the royalties paid by other theatres that they are practically of no benefit whatever.

Quite apart from the fact that we have no information as to the financial position of the theatre and as to where the money is going, we are asked to subsidise this very contentious school of drama; we are asked to subsidise the new stage Irishman who is being invented by a modern playwright, "Joxer" and the "Paycock," a type of Irishman taking the place of the old stage Irishman with his shillelagh, and his pipe in his hat; it is an even more despicable type. The taxpayers are asked to subsidise this new stage Irishman. If this be a national theatre, and if the taxpayers are to support it by a subsidy, then the board for selecting plays to be acted in the theatre should be representative of the whole nation, and not any small clique or minority, which I think is the case at present, however distinguished and however cultured that clique or minority may be. I only wish to make this protest, and I hope that if this money is voted steps will be taken to see that at any rate some of it will go to increase the starvation wages of the actors.

This country has produced very great actors and actresses, and they have been driven out of the country because they could not live by acting at the Abbey Theatre. The Abbey Theatre, as somebody remarked some time ago, is nothing but an emigrating agency for actors. Actors come there, but are driven out of the country because they cannot live on what they are paid. Apart from these things, in view of the restricted control, in view of the particular mentality of those who control the theatre, and those who select the plays which shall be acted in it, many playwrights of national sympathies are boycotted. While their plays are boycotted we are asked to subsidise what was described by a distinguished member of another House as in reality "the apotheosis of sordidity," while playwrights of substantial genius are ignored. When we are asked to advance money I think that at any rate we should have some control of the spending of that money.

I think it is not fair at present to be subsidising theatres. In my opinion the people have gone theatre mad. We must have police in Dublin regulating the traffic going to the theatres, and apparently in this theatre the plays are sometimes a bit contentious, and lead to breaches of the peace. I think to protect theatres is protection gone mad, and I think that that portion of the Vote ought to be withdrawn, and that the education should be given in some other way.

I am glad to see Deputy Nolan joining up with the farmers in that campaign for economy.

Deputy Nolan is always out for economy.

I am glad he is coming forward more openly now than in the past. I am not going to join with him in his case with regard to the Abbey Theatre. I was rather surprised when Deputy Esmonde raised it. He wanted to put down a motion to reduce the Vote by £500, with a view to showing that the actors and actresses were working on starvation wages. I should say that from that point of view he should have moved to increase the Vote instead of to reduce it, because, as far as I can see, the reason for that is there is not enough money to pay them decent wages.

With regard to the Vote, I certainly would not be inclined to agree to anything in the nature of an increase, but I think that for the encouragement of a special form of national drama the Vote is justified. I do not agree with Deputy Esmonde, though the particular forms of drama that have been put before the public have perhaps been of a rather sordid description in some cases, that we should refuse to support the theatre. I think the object of the theatre is "to hold the mirror up to life," and now that Ireland is setting out on a new era, we should try and look at ourselves as we really are. A theatre which we are subsidising should not be for the purpose of portraying an imaginary type of Irishman, but for showing us with all our failings and faults, and, perhaps, some of our virtues as well. There is something in the suggestion made by Deputy Esmonde that as we are subsidising the theatre we should have some information as to the finances of it. At least we should know whether the Minister for Finance has an opportunity of seeing the annual balance sheet. That, I think, is not an unreasonable request. I do not know how the theatre is run, whether by a company or by some form of co-operation. If there is a directorate I think it would not be unreasonable to expect that the Department of Finance should be represented on it, seeing that we are contributing fairly generously towards the upkeep of the theatre.

I mentioned to the Dáil on this Vote last year that I had examined the accounts and found that for a considerable number of years— I think ten years prior to last year— there had been an average loss of £600 on the theatre. The £850 that was put in last year was put in at the last moment, and it was felt afterwards that the figure should have been about £1,000 to enable the theatre to carry on without being in the extremely difficult position that it had been up to that time. I think the whole of the sum that we provided last year went in increased salaries to the actors and actresses. If sweated labour was there in the past, that is not an argument, as Deputy Heffernan pointed out, for reducing the amount of the subsidy it is proposed to give. I think it would be impossible for the State to control the theatre and select the plays. I know that the first proposition that came to us in regard to the Abbey Theatre was when the directors offered to give us the theatre and the buildings, property worth about £6,000, if the Government would undertake the running of it. We declined and stated that we could not do that. I prefer to let other people stand all the criticism that would be levelled at the theatre for boycotting the plays of playwrights with national sympathies. I have never seen that the plays there were of one particular type or that in fact any type was boycotted.

The plays have been of the most varied character, and, even if they were plays to which I strongly objected, I would not, on the strength of that, be inclined to say that the subsidy should be withdrawn. If over a period of years the theatre was objectionable, that would be a matter to be considered. I think we must allow great latitude and allow all sorts of plays to be produced. We cannot act as censors and there is no use in blaming the playright because he writes a particular sort of play. The answer to criticism of those who say that Sean O'Casey or anyone else ought to have written so and so is: "Go and do it yourself." I think the directors' difficulty is to get plays. I have heard them say that they find great difficulty in getting plays. They are anxious that more plays should be submitted.

I will see that an arrangement is made with the theatre so that each year it shall submit its accounts to the Department of Finance, and if at any time it appears to be doing so well that no subsidy is necessary we might reconsider the matter. The directors did offer to add anyone to their number whom the Minister for Finance would nominate. I nominated Mr. George O'Brien and he is on the board. As there was public money going in I thought it was desirable that someone who was not a playwright, who although he is a writer is not a litterateur of any sort, should be a member of the board. I would like to say that I regard the money spent here as very well spent. I think there is scarcely anything in the country better known than the Abbey Theatre. I have met Americans who came to this country and one of the things that they were all anxious to see was the Abbey Theatre. The Chairman of the Banking Commission, Professor Parker Willis, stated that he had been anxious to see the Abbey Theatre and the actors and actresses there. I met an American officer who was on a battleship that was in the Bay and he said that there were two things he wanted to see—Killarney and the Abbey Theatre. Any reasonable expenditure on the theatre is, I think, very well laid out money.

Deputy Esmonde said that the actors come to the theatre as if it were an emigration agency and that the theatre drives them away by low wages. As a matter of fact they are made in the theatre, and if it has not been able to keep them in the past that is regrettable.

They made the theatre.

Well, the theatre made them, so it is reciprocal. I do not agree with Deputy Nolan that because there is financial stringency that we should never pay for anything that is of a cultural character or that is going to develop the talents of the people in regard to literature and the drama. The ordinary theatre contributes nothing and brings out no talent here. It does nothing to stimulate activity in the country as the Abbey Theatre has in producing a whole school of writers, actors and actresses. It has stimulated the minds of many people and is certainly as valuable as, shall I say, one big national school from the point of view of its general effects on the population and is as well worthy of the expenditure of public money.

I think it is a very good rule, and I intend to follow it, that Deputies who receive direct benefit out of a Vote should not take part in a discussion on it, and as one who receives frequently and regularly direct benefit from the Abbey Theatre, I do not feel justified in taking part in this particular discussion. But I would call the attention of the Minister to the position of the Royal Zoological Society, the Royal Irish Academy, the Royal Hibernian Academy of Arts, and the Irish Academy of Music, and I would ask him to see that people who contribute the work that is necessary to keep these Academies going will be properly paid for their services, and that the artistic products that are exhibited in these Academies are of a proper character and do not hurt the susceptibilities of any of the Irish public. It is just as important, I think, in respect to these other Academies as it is for the Abbey Theatre that the people engaged in catering for the cultural development of the Irish people should be properly cared for and that they should be remunerated in accordance with their merits, if it is possible to value their merits. I think, therefore, once the Minister begins to deal with the conditions of service of the National Theatre Society, Ltd., he will be obliged to follow the same course in respect to the Royal Irish Academy and these other Academies.

In connection with the grant to the Irish Texts' Society, is the Minister in a position to say how soon this Irish-English dictionary will be published? It is long expected. I see this £500 is a re-vote. Was anything paid last year?

Mr. O'CONNELL

Is this £500 conditional on the publication of the dictionary, or what is it for?

As far as I remember, the position was that £500 was paid in advance out of a vote of £1,000, the other £500 to be paid when the dictionary was published or ready for publication. I know that progress is being made, but it is slow. About two or three months ago I asked was there any hope of the dictionary being ready before the Estimates came on, and I got the reply that it would not be ready.

Vote put and agreed to.
Sitting suspended at 6.30 p.m. and resumed at 7.15 p.m.,AN CEANN COMHAIRLE in the Chair.
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