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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Feb 1930

Vol. 33 No. 1

In Committee on Finance. - Vote No. 70—Grant to the Royal Irish Automobile Club.

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £3,000 chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thioefidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1930, mar dhcontas i geabhair do Chostaisí Club Ríoga na nGluaisteán in Eirinn i dtaobh na Rásanna Mótair Idirnáisiúnta a bhí i bPáire an Fhionn-uisce, Baile Atha Cliath, ar an 12adh agus an 13adh Iúl, 1929.

That a sum not exceeding £3,000 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1930, for a grant in aid of the Expenses of the Royal Irish Automobile Club in connection with the International Motor Races held in the Phoenix Park, Dublin, on the 12th and 13th July, 1929.

Deputies may be aware that the races which were held last year resulted in a net deficit of £3,256. After the races, when this fact became known, the Committee which had charge of the event and which hoped to make it an annual event in the Phoenix Park, approached the Government and represented that the loss which had occurred this year would, if it resulted in a call being made on the guarantors, make it impossible to hold races again; that if they made a call for even 25 per cent. of the guarantee on the individuals promoting the motor races this year it would be unlikely that they would guarantee the amounts next year and the whole idea of annual motor races would fall through. They represented that they had expenses this year which they were not likely to have in the same measure in subsequent years, that some of them would be unnecessary, and that some of them, while they might not be entirely unnecessary, could be reduced and modified in various ways. They further represented that they had every prospect, in case they were able to hold the races again, of making them financially successful, and that if that happened there would be no difficulty in holding them year after year. The Government believed that the holding of these races would be of sufficient advantage from the point of view of bringing visitors to the country, and from the point of view of the tourist development, to justify the payment of this sum which is proposed, so as to give the Committee which had charge of the event an opportunity of repeating it and of having it repeated year by year.

I rise to oppose the granting of this sum for several reasons. The first is that I understand that before these races were started, and before the Committee got to work, they asked for personal guarantees from several citizens of the State. They got these personal guarantees, and when the races were over they found that they had a small deficit. Now, if these guarantees were worth anything at all, this deficit should be made up by the people who gave the guarantees and the promoters of the races should not be coming to the Government and the taxpayers afterwards to make good the guarantee that these people had been patriotic enough to offer to enable the races to be held. On the question as to whether it is good policy from the national point of view to give a guarantee for motor races, I am also opposed to this grant. The money subscribed, whoever subscribed it or wherever it is collected for this purpose, goes to a number of foreign drivers. No Irishmen take part in these races, and the object of the races is to advertise foreign manufactured cars. If people want to advertise cars, let the makers of the cars put up the prizes to be competed for by these foreign drivers. I fail to see why the citizens of the country or the taxpayers should be asked to indemnify these enthusiastic motorists who have already given a guarantee. Afterwards, when there was a call upon them to subscribe a small sum, they turned to the Government to relieve them of the guarantee they had already given. There will be some trouble about guarantees for next year, but I see that a sum of over £16,000 has already been guaranteed. On the same principle, this time next year we will be called upon to give another sum. A precedent is made this year and next year these guarantors will slip out of their guarantees and say: "The Government came to the rescue last year; there is no reason why they will not do it this year." So this guarantee is perfect humbug. I have already stated the effect of these races is merely to encourage road hogs. We have enough wild men driving on the roads at present without foreigners coming here to educate them on how to take corners on one wheel. I do not think that there is any real benefit in the races being held here. It would be better if they were not held here at all. On this matter, I would like to ask the Minister for Finance or whoever is responsible for the Board of Works, whether there is any sum being paid to the Board of Works in connection with the letting of the Phoenix Park for these races. I oppose the Vote.

I am of the same opinion as Deputy O'Hanlon. I have spoken to several guarantors, and one who was guarantor for a very large amount said that if the House voted this money it would be a gross misuse of public funds. When the people have the public spirit to give guarantees, I do not think that spirit should evaporate when a small part of them has to be paid. A lot of the people have spoken about the action of the Government in giving the exclusive use of the Park to the Automobile Club for these races. Nobody was allowed in unless he paid a heavy entrance fee. As Deputy O'Hanlon says, the same performance will go on next year. They have already got £16,000 and they still are pestering people to give guarantees for the races, although they said they only wanted £15,000. Next year we will be asked to vote the same amount, and I am absolutely opposed to the Vote.

I was very glad to hear the views of Deputy O'Hanlon and Deputy Murphy, because my colleagues and I personally are very strongly opposed to the granting of this money. We do not see any reason or excuse for it. Very good reasons have been offered by the two Deputies who have already spoken, and I am glad to add my voice to the protest of Deputy Murphy with regard to the closing of the Phoenix Park. We are blessed in the City of Dublin in having such a place as the Park as an heirloom, especially for the poor of the City of Dublin, and it is, I would say, an impudent thing on the part of those responsible for the organising of the race to ask that the Park be closed. It is certainly, to my thinking, unpardonable on the part of the Government to close up the Phoenix Park for two whole days so that a few—a very few, because there were very few entries last year —might be allowed to show their skill, as Deputy O'Hanlon said, as road hogs. The races are of no advantage whatsoever, from the point of view of bringing visitors to Dublin. I am told on very reliable authority that the number of visitors who could be said to have been brought into Dublin in connection with the races last year would not be 200. I am told that figure has been got from authoritative sources here in the City of Dublin. From that point of view, the reason offered by the Minister for Finance falls completely to the ground.

The thing that appeals to me mostly is the question of the closing up of the Phoenix Park to the poor of Dublin particularly but also to all classes of citizens, those who are confined during the whole of the week and have only Saturday afternoon and Sunday to use the Park. It is improper that the Park to which time at any rate has secured for them the right of entry to get the pure air that is necessary for them, should be closed up. It is unpardonable that the Government should agree to closing up the Park and more unpardonable still that they should give in addition the sum of £3,000 out of the ratepayers' money. There was one thing last year which struck me as a thing that money might, if possible—if there was any money to spare anywhere—be found for and, that was the provision of a boat to enable the population of a certain island off the West Coast to come to the mainland. While we had £3,000 here to spend on road racing money for these people on the West Coast could not be found to enable people to go back and forward and bring their food themselves and the mails from the mainland. It was an extraordinary thing that in that case a sum of £700 or £800 could not be found in the National Exchequer. Here, we find £3,000 for a thing of no benefit whatever to the country.

Another point mentioned by Deputy O'Hanlon was the advertising of those motor cars. Well, if they want to do any advertising, there are other means open to them, and I do not think we should lend ourselves and the citizens' money for that purpose. The motor trade is not of such great advantage to us here. Practically every development in the motor trade so far has meant further exportation of Irish money, the further taking of money out of production here. Everything connected with motor cars has to be procured from outside, and there is no help for Irish industry so far as the promotion of motor races is concerned. It is all money going out of the country for a useless and unproductive purpose. I cannot see what advantage to Irish industry or to the City of Dublin in any respect is to be gained by the expenditure of this £3,000. Some may argue that a few people in the City get employment, but I do not think the advantage to whatever few get employment for a day or two would outweigh the grave national disadvantages there are in the promotion and encouragement of races of that kind.

Deputy Murphy said that certain gentlemen who are interested have put up guarantees. Some of the papers tell us that they have been asked and have put up guarantees. It is the suggestion of—I think it is called—the Royal Automobile Club. Now that royal institution is wealthy enough and has wealthy members enough on its roll to be able to pay for their own amusements. Dublin ought not to be asked to do it. That royal institution is one, so far as I am aware, that does not need and does not want, and perhaps does not expect any sympathy from us, but certainly they ought not to be given sympathy to the tune of £3,000 for the promotion of luxury races that very few of not alone Dublin citizens, but of those outside Dublin, would derive any advantage from. It passes my imagination how the Government, and particularly the Minister for Finance, who is supposed to be such a tight wad, if some organs of the Press are to be believed, were induced to provide or to suggest that the House should provide £3,000 for such a useless, wasteful and extravagant purpose. I see no excuse on earth for it and I hope this House will reject by a great majority the suggestion to throw away £3,000 of our money for such a purpose.

There seems to be a considerable amount of misapprehension about these motor races and the sum of money proposed to be voted for them. Deputy O'Hanlon talked a considerable amount about bringing over a small number of persons to race in the Phoenix Park and that this sum of money was given in prizes to them. I think the Deputy is wrong. As far as I know, the prizes were all put up separately by different persons, and some of them by newspapers. This money was spent in the preparing of the course and the erection of the stands and other things of that nature necessary for the carrying out of the races. It appears to me to be rather a poor argument to say that very few persons took part in the races and that, therefore, the races ought not to be allowed. If you consider the thousands of persons who go down to Punchestown, the number of persons who ride horses in Punchestown are very few. It was said also that a comparatively small number of persons frequented the races in the Phoenix Park. That is inaccurate. An enormous crowd frequented the Phoenix Park during the two days on which the races were held. When Deputy O'Kelly says that only 400 people came into Dublin, I am afraid he is entirely misinformed. I happen to know that people from all over Ireland came up to that race meeting and, in addition, large numbers came from the other side of the Channel.

It is not for the encouragement of the building of motor cars or the encouragement of the motor industry that these races are held. It is for the bringing over of people to this country and making this country an attractive place for people to come to. That is the object for which these motor races are held. That is the sole object, and it appeared to me last year, at any rate, that it was very successful. It was promoted by the Irish Automobile Club. A good deal of Deputy O'Kelly's speech was directed to the fact that it was what he called the "Royal Automobile Club," but its royalty exists in the Deputy's imagination. It is only in his imagination that the royalty is there. It does not call itself the Royal Irish Automobile Club. It calls itself the Irish Automobile Club.

Has the Minister read the Estimate?

The Irish Automobile Club is how I always heard it described. The object of the persons who promoted that was not to develop the motor industry, but to make Dublin an attractive place for persons to come to and to bring people over to Ireland. It is said that the guarantors were willing to put up the money. I have no doubt the guarantors were. I do not suppose any single guarantor would have kicked, but if the guarantors had to pay the amounts which would be demanded of them this year I do not see any possibility of the guarantors coming forward next year. In other words, the races would have to be dropped. Deputy O'Kelly thinks these races are not good. He goes further and says that they are actually harmful. I take a completely opposite view. I think that anything that encourages the tourist traffic of this country is very valuable. I think we ought not to neglect our tourist traffic. I think we ought to do everything that lies in our power to develop it. I believe that when we invest money in encouraging tourists to come to this country we are investing it very wisely, and one of the most attractive things is motor racing of this kind. Undoubtedly, it is enormously attractive, and it brings over a great number of people and, therefore, in my opinion, it is money very well invested.

There were a number of points in the speech of the Minister which I would very much like to have elaborated. He stated, in the first place, that this money was not spent in giving the prizes to the successful competitors but in the improvement of the course and the erection of grand stands. It is quite obvious that the Minister has not read the Estimate. That is obvious, in the first instance, from his reference to the Royal Irish Automobile Association, which is the title of the body as used in the Estimate. It is obvious, in the second place, because he will note that there is a footnote to the Estimate which states that the State has already expended the sum of £5,500 on the improvement of roads in the Phoenix Park in connection with this function. The State, I would therefore inform the Minister, has already expended out of the money provided by the taxpayer this sum for the improvement of the course and the necessary alterations of the roads. Apparently, therefore, from the Minister's speech, the entire amount realised by the races plus the amount it is now proposed to make available to the Automobile Association, was devoted to the erection of a grand stand.

And the other expenses of running the meeting.

Advertising, the employment of stewards and other incidental expenses?

It was not used, any way, to provide prizes.

Only a very small amount.

And to make the necessary alterations in the course. I am going to put to the House the view that not merely is it inadvisable that we should facilitate the holding of these races but that the national interests require that we should prevent their taking place. Whatever the Minister may believe to the contrary, the main purpose for which the Royal Irish Automobile Association organised this function was to encourage the importation of motor cars and motor spirit. The members of the Royal Irish Automobile Association who exercise the most influence in the councils of that body are those who are engaged as agents in the importation of motor cars and spirit. These races not merely in the Irish Free State, but in other countries, are organised for that one purpose, and that one purpose alone.

I might draw the Minister's attention to the fact that the races held last year were quite successful in the realisation of that purpose. If he examines the general summary relating to external trade recently published by the Department of Industry and Commerce he will see that in the year 1929 we imported 9,634 motor cars and motor cycles, an increase of 42 per cent. on 1928. The amount which we paid last year for the motor cars and petrol which we imported was £2,500,000. Imports must be paid for by exports.

The Minister made a reference to Punchestown races. He compared Punchestown races with the motor races in the Phoenix Park. But horse races do serve the interests of an important industry in this country. Our exports of horses last year were valued at £2,500,000. In effect, therefore, we gave away our entire export of horses for nothing except in so far as we got these motor cars and petrol in exchange for the £2,500,000. Do we think that that expenditure was wise? If the Minister had examined the trade returns he would have noticed that our adverse trade balance last year increased by a quarter of a million pounds. That increase in the adverse trade balance was more than occasioned by the increase in the value of the motor cars which were imported. Does the Minister think, therefore, that it is advisable that we should spend public money for the purpose of encouraging the importation of these cars in greater numbers? The giving of this money by this House will be in effect a subsidy on a form of imports which is not urgently required in the national interest.

The Minister might have gone into greater detail concerning the expenditure of the State in this connection. We are now proposing to pay a sum of £3,000 to make good the loss on the races so that the guarantors will not be called on to do so. We have already expended £5,500 on the improvement of the roads. Apparently, as Deputy O'Hanlon pointed out, the Board of Works gave the Phoenix Park to the R.I.A.C. for those days free of rent— certainly no Appropriation-in-Aid appears upon the Vote. The expenditure consequent upon the holding of the races, arising out of which an increased number of motor cars were bought must also be taken into account. The guarantors, the business community of the city of Dublin, have recently been exercising their vocal organs in objecting to the burden which is being placed upon their shoulders under the Relief of the Poor in Dublin Act. The Minister and the President will recollect that the business community in the city have been asking the State to give them some financial assistance to enable them to meet that burden. But the Government, which refuses to facilitate the ratepayers of Dublin in their efforts to meet the charges arising out of the relief of the destitute, willingly and voluntarily comes along to provide a sum of money to enable these people to avoid having to meet the loss upon the motor races which took place last year. I think that this House would be acting in a most inadvisable manner if it passed this Estimate.

I think that the holding of these races confers little or no benefit on the country. An increase in the tourist traffic would have been of some benefit, but I do not think that the holding of these races contributed in any way to the tourist traffic. The harm which they did, in so far as they encouraged the importation of a certain form of commodity which is not urgently required in the country, was greater than any possible good they might have done. I think, therefore, that the Government should consider going further than refusing to make good this loss; they should consider also prohibiting the holding of such functions in the future.

The case which has been put against this Vote is mainly that it is inadvisable and it is not good business to spend £3,000 on this particular service, and that there is an inconvenience to a large number of people by reason of the Park being closed for two days. Most of the rest of the arguments, so far as I heard them, were filling-up stuff, with a view to presenting perhaps as favourable a complexion to that particular criticism as was possible. When we speak of a sum of £3,000 being a big sum, we speak in a relative manner. If this sum be made available this year for this purpose, the races will be held in the Phoenix Park this year. Last year, a sum of £5,500 was spent to put the course in order. I do not know whether any of the Deputies who have spoken on this matter had conversations with any of those who took part in the races; I do not know whether they ever pay attention to the fact that races take place in other countries, and I do not know whether they advert to the fact that if people come here and see what suitable roads there are for motoring in this country they may tell their friends about the suitability of the roads, with the possibility of having a greater number of visitors coming here in future—in other words, developing the tourist traffic.

Assuming for the moment that all that Deputy Lemass has said is quite correct, and that we spent £5,500 last year in putting this course in order, what has been the effect? We have had some of the most remarkable racing motorists in the world on the Phoenix Park course. What was their verdict on it? Perhaps the most celebrated of them stated to me that of all the courses over which he had ever travelled this was by far the best. That was Colonel Campbell's tribute to the Phoenix Park course. Is it likely that he has told anybody else that? It is one of the peculiarities of motor racing that the course is the main consideration. That course was a safe course; a remarkable competition took place over two days, and not a single person was injured. That was a great personal satisfaction to the members of the Royal Irish Automobile Club, to those who took part in the races, and to all the people who attended, and it was an advertisement in respect of the suitability of this country for a test of that sort of a character perhaps unequalled anywhere else.

A sum of £5,500 spent on the part of the State to make that course suitable for that purpose was one of the main reasons, with the help of God, why we had no fatalities, no accidents, nothing to mar the great competition which took place on those two days last year. Large numbers of people did not come, it is said. How do we know? A considerable number of business people in the City of Dublin have come forward and they agreed to guarantee practically the same amount as was guaranteed last year. If this sum is not voted, no races will take place this year. Was the sum that was voted last year voted only for the purpose of two days' races in that year? Was that money all lost?

Occasionally we hear representations from various sections of the community for the spending of public money. The money spent on these roads was mainly wages—more than half of it. That is not money that is lost. There has been a permanent improvement to the roads there. The moving of the Phoenix monument was of very considerable advantage to the Park. It was one of those things which might in the normal ordinary course have taken place, even if there was never a race meeting held there. But the fact is that not alone did people come here, but that for a considerable portion of a week people in every country in Europe and a large number of people in America read about this contest, read of the large number of people taking part in it, and noted the fact that no fatality and no accident occurred on this racecourse. The State spent £5,500 last year, and practically the only income in respect of a reduction of that was a sum of something like £1,400 received in connection with entertainment tax, so that the net cost may be put down at about £4,000. This year much money will not be required to be spent on the course in order to enable another test to take place, and the putting up of this money by the State made it much more easy to get guarantees. If this money is not voted, the guarantors of last year will presumably have to pay, no race meeting will be held next year, and no further information will go forth regarding the suitability of that course.

It was a remarkable performance last year. There were two great days in connection with motoring here. I am one of those who, like the antediluvians on the far side of the House, would wish that the invention of the motor car had never been perfected, that we should be using horses and cars still, or saddle horses, but unlike them I do not seek to stop the tide with a pitchfork. I admit that they have come and come to stay and that we ought to be in a position to provide for these modern inventions and to provide facilities in so far as it is possible within our limited means for such wonderful contests as took place here last year. Again, if I were to adopt the phraseology of the Deputies opposite, I would say that larger numbers of people will attend the races this year. I think Deputies opposite who saw the performances, if they did not persist in these powerful economic principles which apparently agitate them when they are here, were certainly impressed by the remarkable exhibitions that took place. Are the ordinary people of the State not to be afforded an opportunity, at the small cost involved, of seeing such contests simply because of Deputy Lemass's views on imports and exports? When these race meetings take place in America, they are advertised from one end of the continent to the other and are the subject of speech and consideration by the people, either the friends of those taking part or those interested in the contest.

The cost this year, in so far as the State is concerned, will be relatively less. A further advertisement of the advantages of this country to the motor-tourist will be provided at a small cost. Those interested in the motoring business, of which I think the Deputies opposite can boast at least one member, are satisfied that it is good business. I observe with some dismay that a Deputy who is usually on the front bench opposite is absent on this occasion. I believe if we could manage to spirit him in here and if he was asked what was his deliberate opinion on the usefulness of this Vote he would say that it might be granted.

While listening to the speech of the President, I was wondering whether he was speaking as President of the Executive Council or speaking as an honorary member of the Royal Irish Automobile Club, of which, I understand, he is——

The Deputy understands more than I do. I may be, but I do not know.

He is the "Royal" part.

According to a Press report, the President is one of the honorary members. I am inclined to think that the President was speaking as an honorary member of the Club rather than as President of the Executive Council. I intend to oppose this Vote and I believe Deputies on all benches should oppose it. In the first place, I believe there is no justification for it; in the second place, I believe there is no necessity for it; and in the third place, I believe there is no national demand for it. As Deputy Lemass pointed out, it is not altogether the sum of £3,000 that we are asked to vote, because, according to our information, £5,500 has been already spent in carrying out certain improvements in the Phoenix Park, in preparing for the race, in widening the corners and removing the monument. The President pointed out that most of the money spent on improvements in the Phoenix Park went in wages. The President did not state the name of the firm that carried out the contract. I understand the firm that carried out the contract was the same Messrs. Grainger Bros., of Hollywood, County Down, that the Minister for Local Government and Public Health refused to allow Rathmines Urban Council to give a contract to. I believe the profit made out of the improvements carried out did not remain in the Saorstát owing to the fact that they were carried out by Messrs. Grainger Bros. As Deputy Lemass also pointed out, there was a great outcry and hubbub in this House when it was asked to pass the Poor Relief Bill for Dublin City. The Dublin Chamber of Commerce, acting, I understand, through their spokesman, Deputy Good, strenuously objected to the money being expended as far as the poor people in the city of Dublin were concerned. Deputy Good also informed the House that a resolution had been passed by Pembroke Urban Council objecting to the money being spent.

May I interrupt the Deputy to say that it was not that we objected to the money being spent, but we objected to a charge being put on Dublin citizens for the support of unemployed from all over the country.

Deputy Good objected to extra taxation being put on Dublin.

For that particular purpose.

For that particular purpose, which is tantamount to saying that Deputy Good was not prepared to agree to money being voted to help the poor and destitute in Dublin city. But Deputy Good is now prepared by his silence to acquiesce in the voting of money to subsidise the Royal Irish Automobile Club—or, in other words, to subsidise the British motor industry. The President maintains that that money was well spent. I would recall to the President's mind what he said in this House when speaking on housing some time ago. He said that for every £ expended they expected to get a £ in return. I would like to know if this State spends £8,500 in order to subsidise these races what return this State is going to get? It has been suggested that the tourist traffic in Dublin is going to be improved and that the hotel keepers are going to make something out of it. If that is so, why not let the Dublin hotel keepers pay the £3,000 themselves? It seems to me that by voting this money the Government are extraordinarily lavish in comparison with what they did on another occasion. Before the House adjourned for ten weeks, we on these benches raised the question of unemployment, and we were told by members on the Cumann na nGaedheal Benches that they were not prepared to vote any money for unemployment, that they were not prepared to provide any money for the hungry and destitute throughout the country. Now we are asked to vote £3,000, in addition to the £5,500 already expended, in order to subsidise international motor racing in the Phoenix Park. It has been referred to as "international motor racing." Was it really international motor racing? Did one Irish car take part in the race? I consider that the plea put forward that these races are going to help the tourist traffic does not carry very much weight. The President will remember that during the Tailteann Games there were many more tourists attracted to Dublin than were attracted during the Phoenix Park motor races, while at the same time the Government only gave a loan to the Tailteann Games Committee. Why not insist in this case that it should be a loan and that it should be paid back. I think it is absolutely scandalous, because I believe by this Vote the Government, as the custodians of the public purse, are callously squandering money, while all over the country there is poverty and unemployment, and emigration is rampant owing to the fact that there are not enough industries in the country, more especially in the Gaeltacht area.

When we, on these benches, advocated that four or five or six hundred pounds should be allocated in Donegal for the purpose of setting up carding and breaking plant for the Donegal home-spinning industry we were met with a blank refusal. While the Government are not prepared to vote money to people to keep them from destitution, and from emigrating, they are prepared to subsidise wealthy people who are members of the Automobile Club for their sport. If we examine the personnel of this club we shall find that they are all wealthy people. If they are wealthy people and want to have sport or motor races they should pay for them, instead of asking the taxpayers of the country to subsidise them. I ask the House to reject this Vote because I think it is a piece of class legislation. It is a request made in the interests of the wealthy classes at the expense of the poorer classes of the community.

I could quite understand the opposition to this proposal from Deputy O'Hanlon or from other Deputies coming from country districts, but I cannot understand the opposition of Deputies from Dublin, because vast sums of money were brought into Dublin by the influx of persons from all over the world in connection with the motor race in the Phoenix Park. It is not necessary for Deputy O'Kelly to go to a hotel because he has his own house to go to, but I can tell him no person from the country could get a bed in a hotel in Dublin for love or money for over a week before the date of the motor race. Any money that we can spend in bringing people into this country and especially people who have money to spend themselves, is well spent. It is not taxation; it is reproductive. The Irish Tourist Development Association are pressing the Government to give them a grant. I may say this that tourist traffic was increased by almost one million last year. In 1929, there were three millions spent by people attracted into this country, mostly by the activity of the Irish Tourist Development Association. People have different ideas of attraction. A lot of people will go to the Grand National, a lot will go to Punchestown, but there are a lot of people interested in the motor business and motor racing and you will not bring them into this country unless for that particular thing. I believe motor racing is going to grow. Such people coming into the country will spend money and I believe you will have a much larger muster of people coming into the country this year than last year. I must say that the opposition of Dublin Deputies on this matter is a cause of very great surprise to me.

Deputy Shaw seems to be surprised at the opposition offered by Dublin Deputies to this Vote. As a Dublin Deputy, I oppose it absolutely, and I have various reasons for doing so. First of all, it is ridiculous that those people who guaranteed the money, and who in the ordinary way would be called upon to pay up this guarantee, should come to the Dáil and ask the Dáil to release them because the thing was not quite a success from the point of view of money. I also happen to know that guarantors are got by in ducements given to them by offering them certain facilities. They want it both ways. They are to get free admission and other facilities and if it does not pay we are to pay, but if it does pay who are to get the profits? I think Deputy Cassidy hit the nail on the head when he made a comparison between the attitude adopted by the Government, on this matter, and the help given to the Tailteann Games. In the Tailteann Games we had a national interest. I do not believe the money was ever repaid, but it was only a loan to the Committee. I object absolutely from this point of view also. Deputy Shaw pointed out that the hotels were overflowing during the motor race week, and that there was no accommodation for many people. If these people benefited to this extent and if there is amongst the guarantors people that make profit as a result of the race, why release them from the guarantee which they have given? I say we should be very definite about this. The State is not running this competition, it is the Automobile Club who are running it. They have the backing of the State inasmuch as the State provides them with what the President says is the safest course in the world. There is enough to be done in Dublin City apart altogether from the rest of the country. Even if this £3,000 could be kept for the city it would do good among the poorer classes. They have a better claim to it than the Irish Automobile Club, which possibly will be looking for the same guarantee next year if we establish this precedent of relieving them from the responsibility they incur this year in addition to the facilities they are getting. I hope the House will reject this proposal and save us in the future from having such discussions upon questions of this nature.

I should like to be permitted to say——

Is it on a point of order?

Mr. Murphy

On a point of explanation.

Personal explanation?

Mr. Murphy

Yes. It is with reference to a remark made by Deputy Shaw about the attitude of Dublin Deputies on this question. Can I say something on that?

Unless it is on a point of personal explanation, the Deputy cannot intervene now. If he wishes to speak later, perhaps he could do so.

I often wonder where Deputies on the Fianna Fáil benches have acquired what I will describe as their depressed mentality regarding the conditions existing in this country; why it is they love to stand forward and tell the rest of the world what a poor, miserable race we are, and why we can afford to pay for nothing. I happened to see a comment in a newspaper in September last—a paper whose Irish correspondent is a member of the other House of the Oireachtas, a gentleman who loves to stick pins into the people of this country and to make finicky little points against them. This comment by this eminent correspondent of a Sunday newspaper was published on the 8th September last, and it occurred to me at once that it was exactly the type of comment and argument that would appeal to Deputies opposite. I said: "I shall keep this extract by me, because the Fianna Fáil Deputies are sure to use it." The arguments addressed to the House upon this question to-day are taken practically word for word from what appeared in the "Sunday Times" of the 8th September last. It is headed "The Government and Motor Racing," and it goes on to express wonder at the interest that the authorities take in motor racing. It suggests that an amount is to be paid, and it is hoped that the guarantors will then be agreeable to renew the guarantees for next year's race, when a profit is expected. It states that the Dáil is hardly likely to pass money without protest, not on account of the amount but on account of the principle. That is a very excellent summary in, perhaps, better language, of the speeches that have been addressed to the House this afternoon by Deputies O'Kelly, Lemass and others. I do not think these gentlemen ought to parade before this House and adopt the views of the correspondent of the "Sunday Times," who seems to be paid for the purpose of sticking pins in the authorities of this country at every opportunity. As a Dublin Deputy, I strongly support the proposed grant because the motor race brought great numbers of people to the city of Dublin, and is likely to bring a great many more in the future. I ask Deputies opposite not to pursue this policy of telling the rest of the world that we are so very poor and so miserable that we cannot afford to pay for anything.

Deputy Rice is afraid that this Party is suffering from a depressed mentality. Although our political fortunes up to the present have not been quite so successful as Deputy Rice's, I can assure him that we do not suffer from any depression. So long as we feel that we speak here for the common people we are not likely to suffer from a depressed mentality. It has happened on a few occasions that quotations from the foreign Press have been brought in here. I do not think that Deputy Rice is enlarging his own reputation or the reputation of his Party by having to fall back upon the "Sunday Times," or upon any other English paper. As far as we are concerned, we are just as anxious to keep out the English newspapers as the English motor cars. This particular correspondent of the "Sunday Times" seems to pinprick the Government terribly. The Government have an opportunity of answering that gentleman. I do not know that they would even have to go to the "Sunday Times" to answer it. I do not really know what Deputy Rice's grievance is. As far as I can see, people like Deputy Rice, and those who have recently been sent to America on behalf of the Government, have managed to put a very favourable picture in front of these people who have had the good luck to read their effusions as to the wonderfully prosperous condition of this country. Surely to goodness Deputy Rice is not going to put the correspondent of the "Sunday Times," a paper which is read by a very small body of people—it is not one of the popular Sunday weeklies, I think— against the wonderful publicity that Deputy General McKeon and other representatives of his Party have got in America for the prosperity that we have got here. Our attitude in regard to this is, that if it can be shown that this project, or any similar project, is going to be a benefit to the country, particularly if it is going to develop the country industrially or culturally, or if it is going to be in line with the traditions of the people, there is a strong case for it. But this is not in the nature of the Tailteann Games, as has been pointed out; neither is it in the nature of the Dublin Horse Show; or of the proposed industrial exhibition in connection with that Show. It is not going to help Irish industry.

I thoroughly agree with Deputies who have said that it is not helping the Irish Tourist Traffic. The fact is that no matter how we perfect our roads or our hotels we cannot perfect our climate. We have always that barrier of the climate which will prevent the richer class of Americans and other foreigners from coming here. They are not going to come here if they can go to the South of France and various other places where they can get the sun. We are going to get a particular class of people—I hope we will get more of them in future— people of our own race and kindred. If we want to attract these people here, it is by developing functions like the Tailteann Games and the Horse Show, which have some connection with the country instead of things quite foreign to it like motor races. Motor races are no more in line with the opinions of the common people than picture houses. In fact, the ordinary people, who see the state of unemployment or depression existing—whether the Fianna Fáil Party or the Government or the people themselves are responsible for it it is there—will not like to see discussions of this nature going on. They do not like to see money being spent on these projects. They want to see us coming together on industrial matters, on the building up of the country. I do not think that the President really can be serious when he says that there was employment given out of this in connection with the removal of the Phoenix monument. The removal of that monument was only a very small job.

As regards the motor trade, we are just as sympathetic to the claims of the motor trade. We have unfortunately, as in the distributing trades generally, large bodies of people engaged selling foreign articles. While they are there we must try to give them a chance to exist. This Party is not out to drive them out of business. We are out to encourage them as far as we can to carry on their business. At the same time, we must recognise that there is a wrong trend; that there are too many luxuries being inported into the country; that the country is setting up a standard of living out of all proportion to the standard in other countries. If the Government Party feel that the country has sufficient resources, sufficient capital reserves behind it, to withstand all that kind of thing and that our people can live at that rate, well and good, but I do not agree with them.

I think, as has frequently been urged on this side of the House, we ought to tighten our belts. We ought not to ask the underdog to tighten his belt. We ought to ask the people who have the world's goods in their hands, and who are able to enjoy themselves while other people are starving, to tighten their belts a little and cut down this unnecessary expenditure. They ought to turn their attention to developing the country with the money they are sending out of it not alone for motor cars, but for foreign investments. They ought to turn their attention to their own country, and if they are really interested in it let them realise that before we can have these things, before we can have our city as we would like to have it, we must have prosperity in our city. Those who talk about the tourist traffic seem to forget, in the first place, that the English Press almost boycotted these motor races. It did not give them nearly the same publicity as the Belfast races. In connection with anything that we try to start in Dublin we will always have that canker in the anti-Irish Press in London. How are we going to get their support? In my opinion, we ought to turn round and try to develop our country and cure the ills of our people. We ought to try to develop our industry and give the people the feeling, which they are very badly in need of, that all Parties in this House are trying to unite and to get together on things that really matter; on things that will keep our people at home; on things that will build up the country and that will not have us in the position we are in at present, that we have a large body of people saying that Dublin is a wonderful city. If our foreign visitors only go into the slums what are they going to see? Even those who left the country when the Treaty was signed and who are now very anxious to come back if they can only get the same facilities, or even a portion of the facilities that they had in the old times, are coming back now and their correspondents tell us that Dublin is very shabby and dreary. I think we can do without that class of people. I do not agree with Deputy Shaw or others who say that these people are going to advertise Ireland. Ireland must first stand on her own legs and provide work for her own population and forget this thing of constantly persuading the people that they are living in a paradise when they know themselves that they are living in a very different condition.

This debate has been remarkably interesting, not so much because of its subject, which is, after all, not such a hugely important subject, but because of the curious, fresh revelation it has given of the point of view of the second largest political Party in the country about the prospects of this country. I was very interested to hear Deputy Derrig adding to the other aspects of his Party's policy the additional plank of informing prospective tourists that they ought not to come to this country for fear they might get too wet. I did not know that the Fianna Fáil Party were going in for depreciating our climate as well as for depreciating everything else they can think of depreciating.

Ask the Killarney hotel-keepers what Americans think about the Killarney climate.

What Deputy Derrig wants me to do is to go out and tell Americans to be very careful not to come to Ireland under any circumstances because the climate is too bad. It is a magnificent slogan on which to base the prosperity of the tourist industry. People in other lands who want to bring prosperity to their country do so by boosting their industries, but here the Fianna Fáil Party apparently hope to bring prosperity to this country by a process of de-boosting everything that they can think of. The Fianna Fáil method of advertising our national wares reminds me of the beggars that one sees seated at the gates of oriental cities showing their sores to passers-by and looking for alms from them. This attitude of mind is being sedulously cultivated by the Fianna Fáil Party for one simple political purpose and no other. It seems to me to be one of the most serious dangers that, at the present time, we have to contend against in this country. We cannot get anywhere in industry, or in anything else, if a large proportion of our people spend all their time announcing to the world what miserable, unfortunate, God-forsaken wretches we are, and how rotten everything in our country is, including the weather.

The grant of a few thousand pounds which it is proposed to give to the Royal Irish Automobile Club is on the same level as the whole series of grants which the State gives to all sorts of ventures of this kind. Some Deputy used the analogy of the Tailteann Games. Unless I am greatly mistaken, the State gave the Committee of the Tailteann Games a grant which has not been paid back.

It was paid back.

The whole of it?

It was a loan and not a grant.

The President is not correct in saying that it was not paid back. If it was not paid back in actual fact, it was paid back in amusement tax.

The question of when a loan is not a loan is not so serious a question as when an oath is not an oath. If the money was not paid back, it does not seem to make a vast lot of difference whether it was a loan or a grant. A loan that is not paid back becomes a gift by the lapse of time. There are a great many other ventures of this kind to which the State contributes in one way or another. I do not see that, in asking the taxpayers to pay a contribution of this kind, we are asking them to do anything extraordinary. In all probability far more money than is involved in this grant will be recouped to the Exchequer, in motor taxation alone, as a result of the holding of the motor races. There is no doubt but that, as a result of the holding of the motor races and of similar undertakings, far more money will come into the Exchequer than it is proposed to pay out by means of this grant. It is a matter of laying out the national money to the best advantage.

It is simply claptrap to bring the question of unemployment and such matters into a question like this. One could get up and complain against grants being made to the Universities or for the financing of publications in Irish so long as there was unemployment in the country, and you could then proceed to inform the world that the people of this country are so miserable, so wretched and so poor that they have no money to spend on anything. That is the Fianna Fáil point of view. I hope it is a point of view which the other members of the Labour Party do not share with Deputy Cassidy.

Deputy Cassidy knows what Deputy Tierney thinks of the unemployed. He expressed it in certain words a few years ago.

Deputy Tierney thinks as much of the unemployed as Deputy Cassidy does.

The Deputy expressed it in certain words which I need not repeat.

It was expressed for me in a handbill drawn up by the Labour Party.

That has nothing whatever to do with the grant of £3,000 which the House is now discussing.

In a handbill which did not state the truth.

Why did not the Deputy take a libel action?

The Labour Party would be a good object for a libel action. To get away from that, if Deputies would refrain from drawing the unemployed into matters like this, I think we could discuss the question in a much more reasonable atmosphere. It would be much better if we could refrain from dragging the unemployed, the alleged miseries and the alleged misfortunes and degradation of this country into every possible matter that comes up for discussion in the Dáil, or one might say anywhere else.

I rise for the purpose of dealing with a point that was raised by Deputy Derrig. To a certain extent it has been met by Deputy Tierney. This was an interjected remark by Deputy Derrig running down the climate of this country, and as it may be the subject of comment again I just wish to deal with it. We are dealing with a matter that would not be financed in the way in which it is being financed but for the tourist traffic in this country, and what that means not only to Dublin City but to the rest of the country. Apparently with no knowledge, comparatively speaking, of the climate, Deputy Derrig for the benefit of all concerned, and of foreigners particularly, decries our climate. He referred particularly to what Americans think of it. It was a real live American who, without any necessity at all but from his own desire makes his home in this country for at least ten months of the year, who explained his attitude in the matter to me in these words: "What brings men like me here to live in your country is your wonderful climate."

Is it because it is a wet country?

Deputy Tierney rebuked us for dragging in the unemployed into every debate in which we can do it. We have no apology to make to Deputy Tierney or to anybody else for doing that. The unemployment problem in this country is the greatest national problem that we have to face—one of them at least. When President Cosgrave talked about Deputy Lemass depriving people of the privilege of seeing the motor races, I think he should go down the streets of Dublin and have a chat with ordinary persons who are hungry. He will find, I think, that these people are more concerned at being deprived of their bacon and eggs than at not being able to see the motor races once a year. If we spend the money that we collect from the people in providing them with good food, good houses and good clothes we will, I think, be doing far more for the country than in attracting tourists, whether they come from America or anywhere else. We have no objection to American tourists coming along, but the object of the Government should be to provide for the comforts of their own people and not for the comforts of tourists. Our first duty should be to provide for our own people. If we do that then it will be all right for the tourists to come along. We have not deboosted our industries or our people, as Deputy Tierney has alleged.

We recognise that in this country we have as good a people as any other country. Given a proper opportunity, they would provide for themselves and those who come after them in as good a fashion as the people of any other country, but we certainly want to de-bunk a lot of lies told about the prosperity of the country by President Cosgrave and those associated with him. Cumann na nGaedheal thinks the country is going to be all right when they have fine picture houses in O'Connell Street and motor races once in twelve months. The country would be better off if the £3,000 spent on the motor races were put into some reproductive industry. That would be much better than opening a picture house in O'Connell Street with great and fulsome praise of foreign companies. There is one way in which that £3,000 might be spent. We saw recently in the papers where the Royal Dublin Society, which control the Horse Show, were not able to put on an exhibition of Irish industries at the Horse Show because the Irish manufacturers who came forward did not contribute sufficient money to make the exhibition possible. The Horse Show attracts a great many people to the country. If the visitors the Horse Show brings to the country saw Irish instead of foreign goods, that would be doing something. If this £3,000 were spent in enabling Irish manufacturers to exhibit their goods to foreigners, the money would be much better spent than in giving it to assist motor races.

I am not going to talk of unemployment, and I am not going to use that very bad word "de-boost" which Deputy Tierney used, and which I suggest should be "non-boost," I will not talk of the South Dublin election either. I want to talk of tourist traffic. If the Government is serious in the development of tourist traffic, I suggest that the opportunity to assist it has been very often offered in the past three or four years. I am a member of an association appointed by the county council as a contributory body, and I know that association has repeatedly given the Government the opportunity of helping the tourist traffic, and of enlightening those who want to know about the beauties and amenities of the country. I know that if we concentrated in other directions, infinitely more would be done for tourist development. If the Department of External Affairs gave instructions to their representatives abroad, especially in America, they would do more for tourist traffic than could be done by bringing people to see motor races in the Phoenix Park. I suggest there is no use in talking of tourist traffic in connection with this Vote. The question of supporting tourist traffic has often been put up to the Government, and as far as I know it has given very little help to those who are endeavouring to develop the traffic.

We have heard a good deal about the advantages derived by Dublin from these motor races. I wonder how many Deputies who have spoken in support of this Vote would go down the country and explain to the farmers and the farm labourers how the expenditure of this money is going to benefit them? I have met several of them recently and they asked me: "What are you going to do about voting money for these motor races?" They said: "If you vote for it you will hear about it. What advantage is that money to us?" If motor-making was an Irish industry its encouragement would be a laudable thing, but as it is we are simply engaged in distributing the foreign goods. The opinion of the plain people in this country is worth having on matters of this kind. Some plain talking could be heard with regard to the roads. We expend millions on the roads, and yet the vast majority of the people cannot travel these roads safely. A considerable number, probably the majority, of the ratepayers are living some distance from the main roads, and they have to use roads that have been sedulously neglected during the past few years. When they leave their farms and get out on these roads in many cases they find them water-logged and very dangerous to use. The newly-made motor roads are even more dangerous, as they have been constructed for the benefit only of motorists. We are asked to spend this money on encouraging the motoring industry, a foreign industry from which we derive no benefit. I will be sorry for those who vote for this when they face their constituents.

I think there is no doubt that if the expenditure of £3,000 results in the Phoenix Park races becoming a definite annual fixture the money will be very well spent indeed, and that if it were necessary to spend a larger sum to secure that object the money would be very well spent. Deputy Shaw, I think very correctly, said that different people are induced by different things to come to this country. Some people come because of the Horse Show. They may go through the country and spend a good deal of time in it. The prestige of the Horse Show is what decides them to come here. There will be many other people if the motor races become an annual function who will be influenced to come here by those. They will go through the country and spend, perhaps, very considerable sums, and they will induce other people to come. I believe, or I would not propose this motion, that the tourist traffic in this country can be developed enormously. I do not believe that in the volume of tourist traffic we could attract we would be able to compete with countries like, say. Switzerland, but I believe that millions per annum would be spent in the country by the development of the tourist traffic. For the development of tourist traffic, I believe it is worth expending State money in various ways, for, as I said, different people are differently attracted to spend money in various ways. It is because we believe that the establishment of the motor races as an annual function will help the tourist traffic we propose to vote the money.

If the motor races had been going on successfully for three or four years and made a loss in one year, we would not come to the Dáil and ask that this money be voted. If the motor races are held in 1930 and fail, we will not come to the Dáil and ask it to vote money, but we thought it was singularly unfortunate that in the first year of the races a deficit occurred. We were satisfied that if another appeal had to be made to the guarantors it would be found impossible to get sufficient guarantees to enable the races to be held a second time. We feel that the races are of sufficient importance to be given a second chance. By holding the races this year alone we will recoup the Exchequer the £3,000. If the attendance is at all bigger than last year we will get £1,500 in entertainment tax. If somewhat more successful, we might easily get £2,000 in entertainment tax alone. It would not require a large consumption of dutiable articles, of a liquid or another kind, to get another £1,000. If we get a larger number of people from Northern Ireland, or from any other country, to come to these races, we will get more than £3,000 into the Exchequer. There is no use in talking as if, as Deputy Aiken said, this was taking bacon and eggs—I do not know whether or not he said out of the mouths of the unemployed. This money, I believe, will come back to the Exchequer as a result of races in one year, and if the races become an annual fixture they will bring a great deal more money into the country. There is no use in thinking of going back to the Stone Age. There might be grounds for taking further steps, greater than any we have taken, to get motors made here. But whether we do that now or at a future time, or whether we decide not to do it at all, I think there is no use in trying to push the country backwards. The country has certain attractions for motorists. It has roads that are not so crowded. If that factor were fully availed of we could make a great deal of money and give a great deal of employment. Some Deputy, in the course of the debate, said that we should think of the people before the tourists. We are not trying to attract tourists here for the benefit of the tourists; we are trying to attract them for the benefit of the people of the country.

A bad advertisement.

The tourists are no concern of ours. We are trying to attract tourists here because their coming will give employment. There are countries in which the tourist traffic gives immense employment. It gives substantial employment here, and if we could only get our fair share of the American tourists of Irish descent who come to Europe it would give constant employment in one way or another all the year round to very many thousands of people.

The worst form of employment.

The money that was expended, £15,000 or £16,000, in connection with these races certainly went, the greater part of it, in wages. One must take into consideration not only the erection of the grand stands, the railing and the making of the sub-way, but even the making of the cups, which must have been thousands of pounds in value, and which, with one exception, were made in the country, and a good proportion of all that went actually in wages. I could understand a debate of the character that we have had here about this particular Vote if the sum that was being asked for was in the nature of £60,000 or something of that kind. But I think the whole debate has been out of proportion.

Am I right in taking it that the Minister said that if the race is a failure this year he will not come to the House again for a Vote of this kind?

That is so.

What will happen in the event of the race proving a financial success—who takes the profits?

I presume they will be carried forward.

To whose account?

To meet a possible deficit in a subsequent year.

Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 70; Níl, 48.

  • Aird, William P.
  • Blythe, Ernest.
  • Bourke, Séamus A.
  • Brennan, Michael.
  • Brodrick, Seán.
  • Byrne, John Joseph.
  • Carey, Edmund.
  • Collins-O'Driscoll, Mrs. Margt.
  • Conlon, Martin.
  • Connolly, Michael P.
  • Cosgrave, William T.
  • Craig, Sir James.
  • Crowley, James.
  • Daly, John.
  • Davis, Michael.
  • Doherty, Eugene.
  • Dolan, James N.
  • Doyle, Peadar Seán.
  • Duggan, Edmund John.
  • Dwyer, James.
  • Egan, Barry M.
  • Esmonde, Osmond Thos. Grattan.
  • Fitzgerald, Desmond.
  • Murphy, James E.
  • Myles, James Sproule.
  • Nally, Martin Michael.
  • Nolan, John Thomas.
  • O'Connell, Richard.
  • O'Connor, Bartholomew.
  • O'Donovan, Timothy Joseph.
  • O'Higgins, Thomas.
  • O'Leary, Daniel.
  • O'Mahony, Dermot Gun.
  • O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
  • O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
  • Fitzgerald-Kenney, James.
  • Good, John.
  • Haslett, Alexander.
  • Hassett, John J.
  • Heffernan, Michael R.
  • Hennessy, Thomas.
  • Hennigan, John.
  • Henry, Mark.
  • Hogan, Patrick (Galway).
  • Holohan, Richard.
  • Jordan, Michael.
  • Kelly, Patrick Michael.
  • Keogh, Myles.
  • Law, Hugh Alexander.
  • Leonard, Patrick.
  • Lynch, Finian.
  • Mathews, Arthur Patrick.
  • McDonogh, Martin.
  • MacEóin, Seán.
  • McFadden, Michael Og.
  • McGilligan, Patrick.
  • Mongan, Joseph W.
  • Mulcahy, Richard.
  • Reynolds, Patrick.
  • Rice, Vincent.
  • Roddy, Martin.
  • Shaw, Patrick W.
  • Sheehy, Timothy (West Cork)
  • Thrift, William Edward.
  • Tierney, Michael.
  • Vaughan, Daniel.
  • White, John.
  • White, Vincent Joseph.
  • Wolfe, George.
  • Wolfe, Jasper Travers.

Níl

  • Aiken, Frank.
  • Allen, Denis.
  • Anthony, Richard.
  • Blaney, Neil.
  • Boland, Gerald.
  • Boland, Patrick.
  • Brady, Seán.
  • Briscoe, Robert.
  • Broderick, Henry.
  • Buckley, Daniel.
  • Carty, Frank.
  • Cassidy, Archie J.
  • Clancy, Patrick.
  • Colbert, James.
  • Colohan, Hugh.
  • Cooney, Eamon.
  • Corry, Martin John.
  • Derrig, Thomas.
  • Doyle, Edward.
  • Everett, James.
  • Fahy, Frank.
  • Flinn, Hugo.
  • Fogarty, Andrew.
  • French, Seán.
  • Gorry, Patrick J.
  • Goulding, John.
  • Hogan, Patrick (Clare).
  • Houlihan, Patrick.
  • Jordan, Stephen.
  • Kennedy, Michael Joseph.
  • Kerlin, Frank.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Kilroy, Michael.
  • Lemass, Seán F.
  • Little, Patrick John.
  • MacEntee, Seán.
  • Murphy, Joseph Xavier.
  • O'Connell, Thomas J.
  • O'Hanlon, John F.
  • O'Kelly, Seán T.
  • O'Reilly, Matthew.
  • Powell, Thomas P.
  • Ryan, James.
  • Sexton, Martin.
  • Smith, Patrick.
  • Tubridy, John.
  • Walsh, Richard.
  • Ward, Francis C.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Duggan and P.S. Doyle; Níl, Deputies G. Boland and Allen.
Vote declared carried.
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