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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 3 Dec 1930

Vol. 36 No. 7

Private Deputies' Business. - Case of Connaught Rangers.

I ask Deputies to read the motion which I am now about to put to the House:—

"That a Select Committee consisting of five Deputies, to be nominated by the Committee of Selection, be appointed to investigate and report as to the claim for compensation by way of pension or gratuity of certain members of the Connaught Rangers who mutinied in India in 1920;

That the quorum of the Select Committee be three;

That the Select Committee have power to send for persons, papers and records."

This motion has been on the Order Paper since early last summer, and its terms ought to be well known to every Deputy. After long and patient waiting, we have now an opportunity to thrash out the matter fully and try to come to some definite decision.

Attention has been drawn to the matter on several occasions during the past two years by way of Parliamentary question and by raising it in debate but such representations have been of no avail, and in the absence of a motion it was not possible to get a definite decision from the House. This question concerns every Deputy. It demands serious attention in my opinion. Members of all parties in this House have interested themselves in the claims of these ex-Connaught Rangers, in Parliamentary questions seeking information. Appeals for favourable consideration of their claims have come from all sides of this House from time to time. What is now wanted is definite action by these Deputies who have expressed sympathy with these ex-Connaught Rangers. It is not a party question. I have here letters written by the Secretary of these ex-Connaught Rangers to Deputies of all parties. We who have put the motion before the Dáil are solely actuated by the desire to get justice, however belated, for those men, to get for them the consideration they deserve.

I want those who have on previous occasions supported the claims of the Connaught Rangers to support them here this evening, to speak in their favour and to let Ministers know that it is not a party question. The object of the motion is the appointment of a Select Committee to investigate and report on the claims of these men. The Dáil is not asked to vote pensions, gratuities, or anything else, but to appoint a Committee to enquire into the claims and to express the opinion that there is a case for enquiry and that a Committee should be appointed to go into it, as the full details cannot be gone into here. That Committee will be at liberty to reject the claim if it finds that the men had not a good case. When it has obtained all the relevant information it will be in a position to give a proper decision in the matter and so guide the House. That is a much better course than to ask the Dáil to decide here and now that these men should get gratuities or pensions.

Most of the Deputies here have read an account of what took place during the mutiny in India by the Connaught Rangers. It might be advisable, in order to refresh our memory, to recall a few of the principal facts and the consequences. The Anglo-lrish War was at its height during the early part of 1920, when the atrocities of the Black-and-Tan campaign had shocked the world. One result was to cause considerable disaffection among the Irish regiments in the British Army. The disaffected units attempted to have communication with one another with a view to united action. However, they were transferred abroad, and separated as much as possible so as to minimise the chances of trouble. Organisation amongst these units, however, was extremely difficult, if not impossible. Another difficulty was that they did not seem, if I might say so, with all due respect to the men concerned, to have had capable leaders. A good number of them were illiterate; some of them were semi-illiterate. All were men of a humble class trained as rank and file to obey and not to lead. Otherwise the mutiny might have assumed much more serious proportions and have had a much more serious result from the point of view of Great Britain.

The mutiny took place almost simultaneously at two places, Solon and Jullundur, about the end of June, 1920. The men involved in each case belonged to the 1st Battalion of the Connaught Rangers. At Jullundur about 200 men, in the first instance, refused to parade, stating that their action was a protest against the state of affairs then existing in Ireland. I have made it my business to get in touch with ex-officers of the Connaught Rangers, and it was their opinion that had there been no trouble in Ireland there would have been no mutiny in India. The following notice was served on their C/O. by the men:

"I bring to your notice the recent trouble committed by British troops in Ireland. The Connaught Rangers are determined to stand by Sinn Féin. Our indignation will be shown by action and not by words. We cannot, as Irishmen, stand by and see our relations murdered. We demand the withdrawal of the military in Ireland until our orders are complied with."

At Solon also a large number of men refused to parade, stating their action was a protest against the employment of British troops in Ireland. Private Daly was in charge here. He acted as spokesman, and declared that similar action would be taken simultaneously by every Irish regiment in the British Army, and that the news would be published in every paper in England and Ireland. Apparently Daly had been in communication with men in other units, and was looking forward to united action. A number of the men at Solon, headed by Daly and armed with bayonets, made an attempt to rush the Magazine where the arms were stored. An extra guard had been mounted, however, and the mutineers were dispersed by rifle fire. Two of their number, Private Sears and Smyth, being killed and one wounded. Were it not for the efforts of the Catholic chaplain there would have been more bloodshed. Shortly afterwards reinforcements arrived from other regiments, and the mutineers' quarters were surrounded and all the men put under arrest. The same thing happened at Jullundur, where the C/O. had gained time by parleying with the men while awaiting reinforcements.

These men were tried six weeks later by Field General Courts Martial. Private Daly was sentenced to death and duly executed. About fifteen others were sentenced to death, but in their case the sentences were commuted to penal servitude for life. About fifty others were sentenced to periods of penal servitude, varying from two to twenty-one years. Private John Miranda died while in prison at Dagshai. Treatment while in prison in India was very severe. The confinement and the excessive heat were too much for this man, who was already in delicate health. All the surviving prisoners were brought back to England, and the majority were imprisoned in Maidstone, which has memories for some Deputies on both sides of this House. According to all accounts they received very bad treatment, and the health of practically every man suffered in consequence. One prisoner, James O'Connell, of Finglas, who gave an interview on his release, stated that:

"When he and his comrades first arrived in Maidstone they were severely punished. He was kept for three months in close confinement, and for fifteen days on bread and water, and the other prisoners were subjected to similar rigorous punishment."

The prisoners took part in two hunger strikes for better treatment. The bigger of these took place about the time the Treaty was signed, and the Governor of the prison induced the men to abandon the strike, informing them that their release was only a matter of a few weeks in consequence of the new situation. The men, however, were not released until early in 1923, having spent nearly three years in prison. I understand that the Free State Government made representations to the British Government some time before the men were released. One of the men, Patrick Shallow, died four weeks after his release in the Waterford Workhouse as the result of the ill-treatment he had undergone. The fact of this man coming home to die in the workhouse was a cruel commentary on the gratitude displayed by a so-called Irish Government for his action in India.

Great publicity was given to the men's case when they were released and the expressions of sympathy were heard on all sides. The Free State Government took no action to help the men in any way. Many of the men were in bad health as the result of their hunger-strikes and prison hardships, and all of them, with their families and dependants, were in extremely straitened circumstances.

There was a belief among the men that the Free State Government would make some provision for themselves and their relatives, or give some compensation for what they lost in the matter of pensions or gratuities. They were disappointed. Nothing was done for them and their claims were gradually lost sight of. An agitation was carried on by a few men who lived in Dublin and neighbourhood and a committee was formed. The men claimed that they should be treated on somewhat similar lines to those members of the R.I.C. who resigned for national reasons and were afterwards awarded pensions and gratuities. Deputy Alfred Byrne raised the matter in the Dáil in June, 1924, and asked whether it was the Government's intention to make provision for these men. President Cosgrave replied that the matter had not been considered but that if he were supplied with details of distress amongst these men he would see what could be done.

The Secretary of the Connaught Rangers' Committee wrote to President Cosgrave in August, 1924, asking him to receive a deputation but he declined to do so. His secretary, however, wrote asking for definite proposals as to the claims of the Connaught Rangers. The Minister for Finance set up a Committee in 1925 to look into the matter. There is no account available as to who constituted that Committee, which was apparently a departmental one, and there is no record as to the Committee's terms of reference. The Committee would not interview any of the men nor receive a deputation. It would only receive representations put forward in writing. That was decidedly unfair to the men concerned as they had very little organisation and most of them were not of the type that could put down a good case in writing. At any rate, they could not set it out in any convincing manner. No genuine efforts were apparently made to get at the facts of the case and the appointment of the Committee seems to have been merely a method of side-tracking the question.

The Secretary of the Connaught Rangers' Committee was informed by the Department of Finance on 3rd November, 1925, that, from the report presented by the Departmental Committee, it did not appear that the circumstances were such as would sustain any claim for compensation from the Government and that, after careful consideration, the Minister for Finance was not prepared to recommend any payment from Government funds. Promises were given to obtain employment for the men on public works, but only a few men were provided for in this way, and even then the employment lasted only for a few weeks and did not give these few men any opportunity of getting on their feet again. Repeated representations were made to the Department of Finance but a deaf ear was turned to all appeals. The part played by this Departmental Committee is important. The position should be made quite clear as the cloak of secrecy about the whole affair is, I think, undesirable. Deputy Kerlin and myself on a few occasions raised this matter and the Minister for Finance was asked for details as to this particular Committee, as to its constitution, terms of reference, and as to the evidence the Committee had before them, and, further, on what they based their report. The Minister evaded giving the information asked for.

The House is entitled to this information, and I make a special request to the Minister to furnish it during this debate. I would also like to ask, from how many members of the Connaught Rangers were representations received and why did not the Committee interview these men if they desired to get at the full facts of their claims? Apparently, the Committee was not intended to deal seriously with the matter. It was formed, so far as can be judged, to side-track the issue. The dice were loaded against these men from the outset. They started without resources or organisation, and had very little chance of proving their claims. On the second last occasion on which Deputy Kerlin raised the matter here the Minister for Finance stated that the Committee which considered the matter held the view that patriotism was an afterthought, and that the men had no claim.

He was quite wrong in that statement, and the Minister had to withdraw it when he found his mistake. At that time, and ever since, the members of the Connaught Rangers felt very bitter over it. When dealing with this particular question the Minister stated that some members of the Committee had been of the opinion that patriotism was not the reason for the mutiny, but that the majority of the members thought otherwise. Can the Minister state who the former members were, and what grounds they had for their opinion? The Minister also mentioned some document, other than the report of the Committee, as having come under his notice. What was the nature of that document, from whom did it emanate, and what influence had it on the decision to reject these men's claims? It is only fair to these men, in view of the insinuations which the Minister made, and which he subsequently withdrew, against them that all these facts should be made public.

As far as the actual cost of a scheme to deal with the claims of these men is concerned, we must remember that the number involved is comparatively small. It is not necessary to go into details here as the Committee, when appointed, would make an approximation. We would have to deal with the 50 or 60 men who were imprisoned and, perhaps, not with that many. I have not got particulars of the present whereabouts of all of these men, but it would appear that the vast majority of those who are still in the country are unemployed and destitute. About 10 or 12 men have been completely lost touch with, and have probably emigrated. Some of these men had long service in the British Army, and as a result of their action they have lost appreciable service pensions. The number of men with long service is, however, limited. There would be about a dozen, with service ranging from 12 to 19 years. No one will deny that these men made considerable sacrifices, and are entitled to something in the nature of a pension. My own opinion is that in regard to the remainder, a reasonable gratuity based on the particular circumstances of each man's case would prove acceptable, and would be a satisfactory solution of the problem. There might perhaps be something to be said in favour of making more generous provision for those whose health has been permanently injured as a result of imprisonment.

Deputies should remember that if these men had not mutinied, the majority of them would probably be in different financial circumstances to-day. Most of them would have remained on in the British Army and would have qualified for service pensions. The others would have received certain emoluments and bounties to help them start again in civilian life. Their position would have been entirely different from that in which they found themselves on their release from prison. Their wives and families were destitute and they themselves were penniless. The manner in which these men have been treated, and the attitude of the Government towards them should not be approved by any party in this House. These men have been shamefully neglected, and it is time that we assumed some responsibility for them.

If I might make an estimate I think that anything between £5,000 and £10,000 would meet the case. The actual monetary loss suffered by each mutineer consisted of pay and allowances, including dependents' allowance during the period of imprisonment. The men spent close on three years in prison and during that time their families were not supported in the matter of dependents' allowance—that allowance having been stopped by the British Government. In addition the men forfeited a war bounty or special payment given for services during war time by the British Government. This would be from £30 to £80 per man. These facts should be taken into account and we ask the House and we must ask ourselves is this State going to treat these men less fairly than they would be treated had they ignored the National call in 1920, and if they had not done what they thought was right for Ireland? Are we actually going to help the British Government in penalising them for their action? The position is harder when, from time to time, these men come across comrades of theirs who remained in the British Army. These latter men got pensions and they have been suitably provided for. Such men sneer at the unfortunate individuals who have been cast off by one Government and ignored by another and left to end their days in the workhouse.

I might refer for a moment to the circumstances of the mutiny. We know that a very high kind of courage and a very high form of patriotism were required in the case of those men who mutinied. In India they were surrounded by British regiments and they had undoubtedly memories of or had known of other mutinies which took place in India on two previous occasions when the mutineers were blown from the cannon's mouth. These men took the chance of a similar fate befalling them. The fact that they took action far away from Ireland and surrounded by those thousands of British troops makes their action all the more meritorious from the Irish point of view. I quite see that a British Officer would have got a different point of view. Those who might not see eye to eye with them in their action should at least concede that faith unfaithful kept them falsely true. They were true to Ireland despite their having entered the services of another land. They helped at any rate to a considerable extent to make outsiders realise the situation in Ireland.

When you take into account the dissatisfaction created amongst the Irish regiments at the time, there is no judging how much this incident counted with the British Cabinet in their deliberations about Ireland. It is difficult to say what part they played in bringing the British Government to realise the position in Ireland. The fact that these men have been neglected is a scandal, and one that should be remedied even now at the eleventh hour. Some of them have already died in the workhouses. I have a reference here to two of them, Patrick Kelly and Michael Kearns. There was another within the last month who went into the county home. I forget the name, but I read of it in the daily papers within the last month. I quote from a cutting I have here. dated 6th January, 1930, which reads:

"The death has taken place at the county home hospital, Manorhamilton, of Patrick Kelly, formerly a sergeant-major in the Connaught Rangers. He served in the Great War. When the Connaught Rangers mutinied in India as a protest against the Black-and-Tan regime in Ireland, he took a prominent part and was sentenced to penal servitude for life. He was transferred to an English convict prison, where his health gave way as a result of his war services. Owing to his part in the mutiny he was deprived of a pension."

Another is dated 9/8/1930, and it is from the "Evening Herald," and reads:—"Connaught Rangers Mutiny. Sir, I regret to state that another of the unfortunate mutineers of the Connaught Rangers has died in poverty in the South Dublin Union. Michael Kearns, who was imprisoned in Portland, Maidstone, and Manchester for mutiny in India, and whose health suffered through rigorous imprisonment, died on Tuesday, 6th August, in the South Dublin Union. His relatives, in order that he should not receive a pauper's grave, have added to their poverty by incurring the expenses of a Christian burial. Perhaps some charitable society might interest themselves. They live at 20 Middle North Court Avenue, Church Road, Dublin." Well, these are the two latest. I might read a score of letters that I have got from these men, but it would take too much time. I have also here letters from Deputies who have expressed sympathy and promised to see that they would get justice.

In support of their claims I might take a few extracts from the summary of evidence in connection with the trial and general courtmartial of Private Daly and others at Dagshai on 23rd August, 1920. I have the full text of the evidence here, but I will content myself by giving extracts in connection with the trial. The witness, Major W.N. Alexander, said "I pointed out that their action in not parading, which they stated was a protest against the employment of British troops in Ireland, would not have the slightest effect on the policy of the British Government, and I also pointed out to them the serious results which this action would entail on themselves. A man named Daly stood in front of this parade; he informed me that similar action would be taken simultaneously by every regiment in the Army and that the news would be published in every paper in the United Kingdom. Whatever influence what I have said may have had on the less determined of the mutineers was promptly wiped out by this man." I do not think anybody will deny that he did his bit for Ireland. The witness, Captain L.C. Badham, said: "The right hand man was carrying a Sinn Féin flag... I saw a Sinn Féin flag stuck in the ground outside the Company Bungalow. Private Feely said to me ‘You are not going to shoot down any more innocent unarmed Irishmen' or words to that effect." The witness, Sergeant-Major White, said: "Private Daly, who seemed to be the spokesman, stated in my presence that they would not soldier any more until the British dogs had been removed from Ireland."

Quarter-Master-Sergeant Glenn, referring to a meeting of the mutineers, said they were all wearing Sinn Féin colours made up in rosettes. Corporal Kelly said "Private Daly stood up and said to me ‘Did you see the Sinn Féin flag over our Bungalow? That shows it was our headquarters, and if Major Alexander wishes to speak to us he had better come down here and do so... I saw a small party all of whom were wearing rebel badges or rosettes. Private Evers' said to me ‘You should be wearing one of these badges; we have ordered 100 in the bazaar and all the N.C.O.'s of the Company and band will have to wear them to-morrow.'" Lieutenant Walsh said: "Private Oliver said the men had no complaints against their officers, but his reason for being there was on account of the state of Ireland."

I think these extracts from the courtmartial evidence are sufficient to show that patriotism was the reason for the revolt or the mutiny. Regarding the treatment meted out to them, I might just quote a few of the many letters I have got. I have one extract from the "Irish Independent" on 7/4/'25 with reference to Mrs. Daly, of Tyrrellspass, mother of the man executed in India. There is something in the report about a Cumann na nGaedheal meeting, and as part of it might be controversial I shall not refer to it. The report reads: "Legislation, Mr. Shaw stated, was going to be introduced to give a pension to the Connaught Rangers." That was the statement made by Deputy Shaw.

That might apply to the British Government and not to the Free State Government.

If Deputy Shaw is so innocent as to expect the British to give pensions to mutineers, he is indeed more simple than I thought.

I might inform the Deputy that I have been instrumental in getting a life pension for an ex-mutineer of the Connaught Rangers living in Mullingar. I will give his name here if it is wanted.

I hope you will get more for them and we will all be delighted. I have a letter here from an old man residing in Drogheda. It is dated the 18th June, 1924, and it states: "I have been informed by the British Government that I can receive nothing from them; also to apply to the Free State Government, as he died for Ireland and it was their duty to support me. I am an old man unable to work, with only one daughter to support me..." He was the father of one of the mutineers, Smyth. I have another letter from a Dublin man saying: "I am fed up looking for work but cannot find any. Have you heard anything lately of the promise made by a Cumann na nGaedheal T.D., to see Mr. Blythe or whoever is responsible in the Government? Every day I knock up against Irish loyalists of the British Army who sneer and jeer at me and say: ‘What have the Free State Government done for you? Would you not have been better off to be loyal to King George and to receive your pension as we did?' To tell the truth, I am nearly off my chump looking at my wife and hungry children. All I have received is seven weeks' work from the Government. I went to England and got work there, but when they learned I was a Connaught Ranger I was told to clear out as they did not want any mutineers."

Here is another Dublin letter: "Just to let you know I am still alive. I could not go to see you on Sunday as I had to pledge my clothes to pay the rent, and as everything in the house has been sold since I was knocked idle I am now in a proper fix. My mother has been laid up for the last three weeks.... I wonder what the people who appealed to us to protest against the Black and Tans are thinking about to leave us in such a degraded state?"

I think I have shown that these men were in dire need and that they were actuated by patriotic motives. Promises have been made from time to time to do something for them. All we now ask is that a Select Committee should inquire into the question of whether or not they have a good claim.

There is a very great difference between the case of these men and the case of the resigned members of the R.I.C. The R.I.C., it should be remembered, were an armed police force serving in Ireland and their intimate local knowledge was a powerful factor in the whole situation. The destruction of the R.I.C. was a very important factor in the struggle. There was a public appeal made to the members of the R.I.C. to resign and to refuse to carry out the duties imposed upon them. It was clear beyond doubt that so far as the members of the R.I.C. were concerned who resigned they did make a very important contribution to the national struggle. These men in India were away out of the country. They were, in reality, no factor in the matter. There is not the slightest evidence to show that what they did had any influence whatever on the course of the struggle. I am not denying for a moment that a very high degree of courage was required to do what they did in the circumstances, even though the mutiny was a very small matter and probably had no effect whatever. But they were not appealed to by anybody to do this. It was never put up to them as it was put up to the members of the R.I.C. to get out and to contribute to the national struggle by getting out.

There was, moreover, a further difference between these men and the R.I.C. Every member of the R.I.C. who continued to serve was certain of being allowed to continue there until he had reached retiring age and then to receive a substantial pension. The member of the R.I.C. who resigned sacrificed that prospect of employment until he had reached the age of about 50 and a life pension thereafter. The members of the R.I.C. who resigned in response to that national appeal— the greater proportion—have been awarded pensions, but certain men whose motives in resigning are not subject to doubt have been refused because the line was taken that if a man had not spent more than four years in the R.I.C. the sacrifice in resigning from the Constabulary was no more than a young man situated in a position to give a contribution to the national struggle might be expected to give. In consequence, members of the R.I.C. who served three and a half years or three years and nine months, or other such periods, were refused pensions under the Resigned and Dismissed R.I.C. Order. They were very different.

The majority of these Connaught Rangers who mutinied, so far as can be ascertained—and there has been a certain difficulty, when the matter was examined, in ascertaining facts—must have had no longer service than these members of the R.I.C. who resigned and gave up the prospects that they had in the Constabulary, and who received no compensation afterwards. As far as could be learned there were about 61 of these soldiers sentenced. There is some difficulty in ascertaining the facts. Of those, so far as can be learned, about six had long service. The average service of the remaining men was about five years, so that a great many of them must have had four years' or less than four years' service. The claim to any compensation of these men who had four years' or less than four years' service is certainly less than the claim of the members of the R.I.C. who were refused compensation. As I say, they did not give up the prospects that members of the R.I.C. gave up, and they did not, because of circumstances, of course, over which they had no control, make the contribution to the national struggle that members of the R.I.C. made in resigning from the force at the time they did. These men who voluntarily took such action in India, apart from the fact that they were isolated out there, are precisely in the same position as civilians who made sacrifices for the national cause at home. There were many civilians who had to sacrifice their goods to a large extent, who had to sacrifice personal prospects and who had to run great risks at home in order to do what they considered they could do, and ought to do, in the interests of the country, and these civilians are receiving no compensation. There are many civilians who made greater sacrifices from the economic point of view than perhaps any of these men did. All of us know civilians whose businesses were allowed to fall into decay because of the time they gave to national affairs or because of the imprisonment they suffered, and these civilians had no claim, and there has been no proposal to bring in a Bill giving compensation to all the civilians who took risks and who suffered material or economic loss because of what they did. It would be an impossible position if civilians who could prove they did sacrifice certain prospects or lost certain trade because of their efforts during the national struggle were to be compensated. There is no reason why a man because he wore a British uniform, who perhaps took no greater risks than many civilians took, should be given a pension or a gratuity at the public expense.

As I said in the beginning, there is every distinction between the case of these men and the case of the R.I.C. The R.I.C. were appealed to by the national leaders to resign and they acquired a claim by the fact that they resigned in response to that appeal. Even a civilian might claim that he was appealed to, as he was in many circumstances, to do this or refrain from doing that, and in that way to encounter risks and incur losses, but these men were not appealed to. From that particular point of view, they have not only not the claim that members of the R.I.C. had, but they have no greater claim than many civilians actually had.

A considerable number of these people were given work for certain periods. Undoubtedly, in certain cases the periods may have been rather short, but out of the 61 men who, as far as we can discover, were sentenced, 31 at one time or another were given employment. I admit that in many cases the period may not have been as prolonged as we would have liked it to be. For a considerable time they were not exactly ranked, unless they had actually served, with the ex-members of the National Army for the purpose of preference in employment. I think that there is certainly a case in all the circumstances for ranking them with the ex-members of the National Army and for trying, in as many cases as possible, to provide them with employment. I think it is entirely inaccurate to say that the vast majority of these men would ultimately have pensions. I think the great majority of them would not have pensions ultimately at all. They would have gone to the Reserve on the completion of their seven years' period, and while they would have had certain financial benefits for a period of five years by being on the Reserve, they would also have had certain obligations.

In regard to the men who have had long service—their numbers are very small as far as can be discovered— there would be a case for making special efforts to get them some employment of a permanent character in the public service in some of the minor grades which might be open to them. Deputies have stated that certain of them have died in the workhouse or in distress, or are suffering from distress and destitution. In certain quarters we hear every day complaints of ex-soldiers of the British Army being in grave distress and destitution. In fact, we see scare headlines in certain papers indicating that, not a few dozen, but actually thousands of British ex-servicemen are in a state of destitution. If some of these men are in a condition of destitution many of them perhaps would have been in very similar circumstances to-day even if there had been no mutiny. They would have simply been discharged from the Army in due course, and if they had not been able to fit into civilian life quickly they would have been suffering from the same difficulty.

Even if it were regarded as necessary to re-examine this case in any way, it certainly is not the sort of case for a Select Committee of the House. It is a very small matter. The number of men who might be regarded as having some serious claim would be the six long-service men. So far as the others are concerned, they have no claims, beyond the sort of claims that might be very satisfactorily examined in two or three speeches in the Dáil. The case of the men who had long service is one which I would be prepared to re-examine, not with a view to giving them pensions or gratuities, but with a view to considering seriously what further steps could be taken, because a certain number of them have been provided with employment in Government service, and certainly some of them with employment of a permanent character.

The Deputy who moved the motion has asked what was the constitution of the Committee that was established in March, 1925, and who were the members of it. The Committee consisted of four members, namely: Seamus Dolan, T.D. (Chairman); Diarmuid O'Hegarty, Secretary to the Executive Council; P.S. O'Hegarty, Secretary to the Department of Posts and Telegraphs; and Mr. R.J. Baker, Chief Auditor of the Department of Local Government and Public Health. The Terms of Reference to the Committee were to examine and report on the claims for compensation from the Government of Saorstát Éireann put forward by certain ex-members of the Connaught Rangers. It is not accurate to say that only representations in writing would be received. The representatives of the men were asked, first to put forward their case in writing which, I think anyone will agree, is necessary in carrying out investigations of that sort. After the representations in writing were received representatives of the men were examined verbally so that they might supplement the representations that were made in writing, and so that they might answer any queries which members of the Commission might put to them. If the Committee had made up its mind that it was going to recommend gratuities to members of the Connaught Rangers, then, of course, it might be necessary for the Committee to see either all the men or a great number of them to ascertain in detail the facts of each individual case. But when the Committee was examining merely a broad question of whether these men had a claim for compensation from the Government of the Saorstát, it was only necessary to examine one or two men who knew the general facts of the case, and could put these facts before the Committee. Whatever differences of opinion there might be on one or two points of the details, the facts are exactly as I have stated them. As regards the great majority of these men they were simply soldiers doing their seven years' service, with a period of service, after the seven years, in the Reserve, and their case was in no way comparable to the ex-Royal Irish Constabulary men; they were acting without a national appeal or national direction. They, therefore, did not acquire any claims on the public fund that would be acquired by acting on such appeal. They were not in a position to make any contribution of an effective kind to the national struggle; and their sacrifices were not greater than the sacrifices made by many thousands of civilians in whose case no question of compensation had been raised.

There has been talk of bad treatment in prison. Of course, there are people whose health suffers in prison, but I would not be inclined, without a good deal of evidence, to pay much attention to the allegation of ill-treatment. In the old days some people in the prison I was in were very much inclined to write home about bad treatment when such did not exist, and because of that, I have a disposition to doubt the allegation of ill—treatment. Nevertheless, there are individuals whose health would suffer because of the confined condition, even if there was nothing that could be described as bad treatment. We all know there are individuals whose health will not stand prison even when the conditions are good, but that applies again to a great number of civilians. It seems to me it is a thing altogether without sense of perspective, to propose to set up a Select Committee consisting of five Deputies to consider the case of whether these Connaught Rangers should be awarded compensation by way of pension or gratuity. As a matter of fact I think that even if the House took a view diametrically opposite to the view I am now taking that that sort of a Committee could not possibly ascertain the facts that would be required if compensation was going to be awarded. In the investigation which took place in regard to the cases of resigned and dismissed Royal Irish Constabulary men there was often very great difficulty in ascertaining the facts, and many cases were put forward which contained misrepresentations that vitally affected the case. If investigation were to take place I believe it could be effectively carried out only by the employment of Departmental machinery which was employed in the case of members of the R.I.C. Although there was a Committee in that case which I think did very valuable work, it was necessary, after the Committee had completed its labours, to carry on a supplementary investigation in a very large number of cases and by means of that investigation it was possible to elicit facts that could not be elicited by the Committee.

While I have said what I have said against the claims put forward on behalf of these particular men, I do not want it to be taken that I am without sympathy for them. I am only trying to combat what I regard as an extravagant claim put forward on their behalf. As I have said already, it is an undoubted fact that men could not mutiny in India in the condition in which these men mutinied without courage of a very high character. While it does not constitute a claim for compensation out of public funds, it is a factor that ought to be weighed to the extent that it was a somewhat remarkable thing that these men who had voluntarily gone into the British Army and who were separated from their country by thousands of miles, should have been so moved as to take this kind of action, I certainly think, because of the remarkable qualities that were displayed by these men in courage and because they were moved by the facts in Ireland in spite of their surroundings and their particular position as members of the British Army, that every effort should be made to see what can be done to ease the circumstances of those individuals who most need to have their circumstances eased. But in view of everything, I think that in any case claims such as these would be met by giving employment to these men. I think that the question of pensions and gratuities should not come into it at all. As I have stated, certain members have been given employment. There are others who were, so to speak, treated on the same basis as ex-members of the National Army. There are others for whom employment in one way or another can be found—employment of a suitable character. So far as any claim that these men may have against the public purse is concerned, that would be more than meeting any strict claim they have. It would be making allowance for the factors that I have already mentioned.

Mr. Hogan (Clare):

For the last seven years it has been my lot to listen to arguments from the opposite benches, but anything so vacillating, anything so unconvincing, or anything so degrading to national gratitude I have never listened to than has been stated here this evening by the Minister for Finance. He says that the retirement of members of the R.I.C. was a powerful factor in the struggle. He says that this mutiny had no influence on the struggle. Let us see what was the position when these men did mutiny. What were we anxious to do in this country and to have done for us during 1920? Whether we participated in the struggle or not, we all kept our eyes open and saw what was happening around us. When we are told by the Minister for Finance that this mutiny had no effect upon the struggle, we are forced to ask ourselves: what was the desire of the Government of that time as regards publicity in foreign countries? What effect had the mutiny of the Connaught Rangers upon a country like India, seething at that time with discontent, which is now expressing itself? What effect had the mutiny of the Connaught Rangers in India, seething with disaffection, and what effect had the incitement to dissaffection in India upon the mind of those who were governing this country with steel and fire? What effect had that mutiny when it was blazoned forth in America and when it burned a gap in that wall of paper which was set up around this country to prevent the truth from reaching America and other countries? Had that no effect on the struggle here? Had it no effect upon countries friendly to this country? Had it no effect on showing up the kind of warfare that was being carried on in this country in the name of the British Empire and in the name of the British people? We are told that it had no effect upon the struggle. We are told that these men mutinied with no national appeal, that they were not asked to mutiny. They were not asked to take any part in the struggle, and yet we cannot deny the fact that they did mutiny and blazon the position of affairs in Ireland throughout India, throughout America, and throughout the universal world.

The Minister tells us that civilians suffered and made sacrifices in this country and that their cases are comparable with the case of the Connaught Rangers. What did civilians suffer in this country? What was the position of civilians here as compared with 80 Connaught Rangers in India? Has the Minister for Finance no imagination? Cannot he realise that at the time every house here was a refuge for any man who raised his hand or voice against British domination in this country? Every boy and girl in the schools were spies to warn such a man as to where the armed forces of the British Government were. Every man and woman was on the watch on the hillsides to tell the armed forces of the Irish Republic and to tell the civilians who were in danger where the Tans or the British military were. Every man, woman and child in the greater part of the country were active participants in that struggle against British domination. And we are told that their case is comparable with that of the Connaught Rangers in India! What was the position in British India? What was the position of the 80 men who told their commanding officers that they would not parade, that they would not go on active service, that they would not take any active part in manoeuvres in India so long as the struggle was continued in the fashion in which it was being carried on in Ireland? Can we not imagine the bayonets bristling around them and the bullets made ready by soldiers some of whom were not alone willing, but perhaps anxious, to have revenge on those Connaught Rangers. Where could they fly for safety? Where were the men and women to warn them, or where were the children to stop them at the cross-roads and to tell them where danger lay? They sacrificed their safety; they sacrificed their position and prospects, and yet we are told that civilians were in the same position in this country! There is no parallel, and the Minister knows it. Any man who lived through the conditions in this country knows that you cannot compare conditions in Ireland in 1920 with the conditions in British India, with the British military temper as it was then. You cannot compare those conditions with the conditions of the civilians or the armed soldiers of the Republic at that time.

We are told that no civilians have got pensions, that no civilians have been compensated. I am not anxious to detract from the activities of any man in the service of his country. I am not anxious to say one word that would detract from their compensation or from whatever consideration they are getting for their activities. But if we had a list of the names and addresses of those who are receiving pensions in the Irish Free State, we would be in a position to say that there are no civilians getting pensions or that there are civilians getting pensions. What is the mysterious document, I wonder, that was presented to the Government which induced them to come to the conclusion that these men did not act with patriotic motives or did not act because of what was happening in this country? It is just as well we should have some contemporary evidence of the period under review. Some people would be considered prejudiced in favour of these men and other people might be considered prejudiced against them. But if I quote from two authorities, I may possibly convince the Minister that there can be no doubt whatsoever as to the intentions of these men in India. What was the position and affairs in Ireland in 1920? What was happening here then? Let us have contemporary evidence. I find the following in a book written by General Piaras Beaslai:

A month later the "Irish Bulletin" gave particulars of nine unoffending civilians killed and about 70 persons wounded during the previous 30 days by these same protectors, and the following list of towns shot up or partially or wholly wrecked by the "Forces of the Crown": Bantry (twice), Kilcommon (twice), Thurles, Pennywell, Clondulane, Ballindine, Limerick (twice), Union Hall, Swords (twice), Templemore, Emly, Fermoy, Rearcross, Enniscorthy, Lismore, Ballylanders, Tuam, Newcastle West, Newtownmountkennedy, and Carrick-on-Shannon.

We find also, in the same book, extracts from the paper issued from Dublin Castle at the time in which it belauds the activities of these men, in the following terms:

They did not wait for the usual uniform; they came at once; they were wanted badly and the R.I.C. welcomed them; they know what danger is; they have looked death in the eyes before and did not flinch; they will not flinch now; they will go on with the job—the job of making Ireland once again safe for the law-abiding and an appropriate hell for those whose trade is agitation and whose method is murder.

We find also in the report issued by the British Labour Party the following conclusions:—

We cannot close this section of the report without an appeal to the British Labour Movement and to the British public. Things are being done in the name of Britain which must make her name stink in the nostrils of the whole world. The honour of our people has been gravely compromised. Not only is there a reign of terror in Ireland which should bring a blush of shame to the cheek of every British citizen but a nation is being held in subjection by an Empire which has proudly boasted that it is the friend of small nations.

Probably the Minister is wondering what is the relevance of all this. I have here a history of the Connaught Rangers written by Lieut-Colonel H. F.N. Jourdain, C.M.G., late commanding 2nd Bn. The Connaught Rangers, and Edward Fraser. What do they say?—

It was in these circumstances that on Monday, June 28th, 1920, after two of the hottest days that year, the following occurred. Some of the last draft just mentioned mutinously refused to parade and several others joined them. They were influenced, as they declared, by political news from home contained in letters from home which had arrived the day before. The numbers of the disaffected were such that they controlled the situation and they were deaf to reason or argument, declaring that their action was intended as a political gesture of protest.

It is also stated that emissaries of the mutineers had gone on to other places. We have now this position: in 1920 murders, lootings, burnings and outrages of every conceivable kind were being committed by the armed forces of the British Empire. This information was sent out to the Connaught Rangers. The Connaught Rangers, acting on that information, refused to be the tools of the British Empire in India. They mutinied. They risked their lives and ruined their prospects. They did more for propanganda for the Irish struggle than any amount of literature or any number of ambassadors sent abroad. They blazoned forth the story of that struggle in India. They threw its flame across to America. They made the whole world ring with the knowledge that Ireland was struggling against conditions which no country in history, possibly, had to struggle against before. And, then, some of them faced a blank wall and a firing party. Those of them who escaped came back here. We find one of them in my own county in need of sustenance and struggling among the army of unemployed.

When representation is made here to the Government of the State, we are told that the action of these men had no effect upon the struggle. Can there be any doubt as to their courage? Can there be any doubt as to their motive? I ask the Minister if there can be any doubt as to the effect which their action had upon world opinion. Yet, when we ask for consideration for them, we are told that they will get some kind of employment. That is not national gratitude, and that is not the way a National Government ought to face the position. The patriotism of these men has been proved. Their courage has been proved. What they did is beyond question, and national gratitude should be forthcoming in a manner commensurate with their action and not in the form of paltry doles or employment of some temporary kind which the Minister has in mind.

I would like to say in the first place that I feel sure we all appreciate the brave and patriotic action of these men when they laid down their arms in India as a protest against the cruel wrongs that were being perpetrated here against their countrymen. I would like to point out that the fact of their having taken part in this mutiny is no bar whatever to their rights to a disability pension from the British Ministry of Pensions. When considering a man's right to a pension, his service record is not taken into consideration, the one and only question being—is the man's disability due to his service? Deputy Fahy stated that we were helping the British Government to penalise those men. He mentioned that the British Government had cast them off. He made the case that a particular person, owing to his part in the mutiny, was deprived of his pension. I want to clear the air on that point, when I say that the fact of a man having taken part in the mutiny in India does not in any way debar him from getting a pension. Some years ago there was a rule in existence that a man would not be eligible for a pension if he did not apply for it within seven years.

That is a disability pension.

It is not a service pension.

I can state very positively that there is not now any bar of that kind. There is no difficulty now in having a claim considered no matter what the period is. If proof of the statement which I make here is necessary, I would point to the case of an ex-Connaught Ranger who lives in Mullingar, who took part in the mutiny and who was sentenced to a long term of imprisonment. He is now in receipt of a life pension from the British Government. That was awarded in 1928, just prior to the end of the seven year period. That was principally due to the fact that he had some help. I wish to say this: there are thousands and thousands of persons in the Free State, men, women and children, who could get increased that £2,500,000 which is coming in here, if the persons who profess to have great sympathy with them only raised one finger to help them.

I am Chairman of the Pensions Committee for seven counties. I am not going to dwell here on the wonderful work we were able to do and the wonderful sums we are able to secure for these people. I make this statement, however, that every single individual— I don't want to say anything about Parties—ought to come along there and help to bring money into the country. There are plenty of people who could help them if they made the attempt to help them. There is another ex-Connaught Ranger living in my constituency who took part in this mutiny, and who was sentenced to a long term of imprisonment in India, afterwards being dismissed from the British Army. He was awarded a pension. I admit it was only for a period, and that that period has now expired, but he has received both treatment and treatment allowances. I know that his treatment has cost hundreds of pounds to the British Ministry of Pensions, as he has been for very many months in British Hospitals in this country. I have certainly the greatest possible sympathy for these men. I would make a very strong appeal to the Minister that we should not be any less sympathetic to them than the British Government were. I submit the proper thing is to give employment to them. I want to make this point at which some Deputies on the other side would perhaps sneer. There are a great many of these Deputies chairmen of county councils and boards of health. What have they done for these men? I begged employment for the particular man I mentioned from the Westmeath County Council and the Board of Health. He never received anything from them, and he was almost starving until he got a pension. I ask Deputy Fahy, who has a great influence with a large number of persons on these county councils, to use that influence to try to get them employment.

The Deputy flatters me.

I think these men should be treated sympathetically, undoubtedly, and I would make a strong appeal to the Minister that they ought to get preference of employment from the Government, and also plenty of work from the county councils which, I am sorry to say, in some counties Fianna Fáil dominate. The only case I refer to, and it is a sad one, is that of Mrs. Daly, of Tyrrellspass, the mother of Private Daly, who was shot in India. I administered £20, which President Cosgrave gave me out of his own pocket, to her, and I got her 10/- a week home help; but unfortunately she died; but what did the Party on the other side do? I say that these men should get preference for work, and I repeat that the Minister should see that they do get Government work. I want to pay a tribute to the few people in this country who have worked hard in the interest of ex-Service men, and I am sorry to say they are only too few.

Deputy Shaw tells us that he begged for employment for members of the Connaught Rangers who mutinied in India. He tells us a lot of bunk about men who should be entitled to a disability pension, and that the regulations governing pensions from the British Army are such that a man could claim a pension after a period of seven years. Any ex-soldier knows that. These are not disability pensions that are being claimed. What we claim is justice for men who, at the time when Ireland was in the throes of a war with England, were prepared to do or die for their own country. We are not asking for charity for anybody. We are looking for justice. The Minister, in his vacillating speech, stated that their case is not comparable with the case of the R.I.C. It is not. The R.I.C., who fought against the people of this country, were granted pensions because the Minister and his colleagues agreed to it. They fought tooth and nail against this country. These men, who served in the British Army, who knew that on the slightest sign of mutiny they were doomed in India to death or imprisonment, were prepared to do and die, and their case is not comparable with the R.I.C., who are enjoying £2 10s. and £3 10s. a week pensions. The men who fought against this country, until they had to be disbanded, until they could do no better— their case is not comparable with the case of the Connaught Rangers who, when they were members of the British Army in India, went out in rebellion against the British Army on account of what was being done in Ireland. Deputy Shaw talks about begging for jobs for men like those. I remember when the case for the Connaught Rangers was up here before in this House, having particulars of the individual cases of these men. I remember that the father of one of these at that time was in the poorhouse. The Minister then says that it is not comparable with the cases of the R.I.C.

The Minister was one of those who stumped this country from one end to the other, who was a fountain pen warrior at a time when other men were risking their lives. The Minister wanted propaganda. As Deputy Hogan pointed out, this was one of the finest pieces of propaganda during the trouble in Ireland. It was said of the Minister that his words were so hot they might have burned the paper they were written on. That Minister is one of those who comes along to us and tells us their case is not comparable with the cases of the R.I.C. The Minister refuses to treat those cases on their merits. Some of those men who had 17 years' service ordinarily would have been coming out of the British Army with a pension. Those men were prepared to lay down their lives for a certain ideal. They were prepared amongst hostile troops in India to say: "We will not carry on as long as things exist in Ireland as they exist at the present time." Those men knew what they were up against.

The Ministers may pay lip service to the British Empire and tell us what they think of the British Army and Navy, as they have done in the last three or four weeks. I know what it means to be in the British Army, and know what it is to mutiny in the British Army. These men were prepared to die for their country. That Minister for Finance is not even prepared to put them on the same footing as he put the R.I.C., who fought against this country to the bitter end. We do not beg for these men. All they want is jobs. They are entitled to pensions, but they do not even get jobs; their people were left to die in the poorhouse, and Deputy Shaw talks about begging for jobs.

And was refused.

That Minister who stumped this country, who recruited for the I.R.B., and demanded propaganda on behalf of the Irish Republic, the I.R.B. and the I.R.A. has refused to treat those men as Irishmen who made a fight for their own country. In my opinion that Minister is so low down that he could walk under a common earth worm with a tall hat on him.

Debate adjourned.
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