asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he is aware that according to the figures quoted by him in the Dáil the amount of public funds spent in connection with the Drumm Battery and experimental trains and for which the State is liable on a contingency basis amounts, to date, to a sum of £6,000 in excess of the amount (£45,000) requested by the Minister and voted by the Dáil, and if he will cover further expenditure by way of a Supplementary Estimate, or if he will state at what amount of expenditure, including contingencies, he proposes to cease further expenditure without coming to the Dáil for sanction.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Drumm Battery Finances.
The amount voted by the Dáil is not, as represented by the Deputy, £45,000, and no figures quoted by me give the slightest ground for the suggestion that excess expenditure not authorised by the Dáil has been or will be incurred.
The actual position is that the Dáil provided the sum of £25,000, to cover:
(a) £3,900 for repayment to the Contingency Fund.
(b) £15,000 for administrative expenses and costs of battery construction and tests.
(c) £6,100 for indemnifying the Railway Company against its expenditure, and for contingencies.
I made it very clear when introducing the Estimate that the sum of £6,100 was not the full measure of the contingent liabilities that the country was being asked to undertake in respect of the indemnity, but only so much as might conceivably come in course of payment within a year. I stated that the full amount of the liabilities under the head of the indemnity might be taken as £25,000 approximately.
The Estimates made 12 months ago have been borne out very closely in practice. No payments have fallen to be made to the Great Southern Railways under the indemnity, but the amount that would fall to be paid if the experiments proved to be completely unsuccessful and were abandoned is well within the limit of £25,000 that I then indicated. That limit will not be exceeded without the express sanction of the Oireachtas. As I have not exhausted the provision made for the service and as I do not at present propose to alter or extend the course of action I sketched when submitting the Estimate I see no necessity for requesting sanction for a course of action already approved.
Is the Minister quite clear on the figures he has just read out, that in no way has the limit of the Vote of the Dáil been exceeded either by way of payments of moneys due or by further contingency claims of the railway company?
I am aware that my reply to the Deputy's question is completely accurate.
The Minister stated the week before last that the total amount advanced to date out of public funds to Celia, Limited, for all purposes in connection with electrical battery development is £22,700; this includes sums amounting to £5,300 in the aggregate advanced in previous financial years out of the Contingency Fund. The total amount of liabilities of Celia, Ltd., accrued at the present date and remaining undischarged by the company is £4,300 approximately, against which a sum of £600 approximately is held in cash by the company. He also stated last week that the amount would be in the neighbourhood of £25,000. If these are added up together the Minister will see that the £22,700 spent and the contingent liabilities would amount to over £25,000. All these figures which the Minister read out will bring the sum to a much higher figure than he has stated now; and will the Minister state now if he thinks it necessary to engage in any further expenditure, will he come to the Dáil with Supplementary Estimates?
The Deputy's whole question is founded on a misconception. If the Deputy will get the figures and add them together he will find the total.
Does the Minister know the figures?
It is my own figures I am speaking about. The Deputy has added them up wrongly.
What are the total figures the Minister has quoted?
That is a different question.
The purpose of the question surely is to find out what they are.
I could never discover the purpose of the Deputy's question, and I do not think he has any purpose whatever clearly before him.
Will the Minister add up the total of the figures he has given and tell us what the total is?
I can say this definitely—it is not the sum the Deputy thinks it is. If the Deputy will add up the figures he will find it.
How much is it?
That is another question.
Will the Minister state the total? Or does he want me to put down another Parliamentary Question for that?
I do not think the Deputy should pursue this by way of Parliamentary Question. If the Deputy will get a pencil which I am sure he can get, and if the Deputy will get a piece of paper as I think he can get, and if he will apply some thought to the problem he will be able to solve it.
But does the Minister dispute the fact that he stated last week and the week previously that the contingent liabilities of the State to the railway company amounted roughly to £25,000?
I did not state that.
What did the Minister state?
That is another question.
I would ask the Minister to repeat his answer to the question I have put down to-day.
The Deputy will see the answer to that question.