Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 22 Apr 1932

Vol. 41 No. 5

In Committee on Finance. - Vote No. 63—Wireless Broadcasting.

Minister for Posts and Telegraphs (Mr. Connolly)

I move:

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £40,310 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1933, chun na dTuarastal agus na gCostaisí eile a bhaineann le Fóirleatha Neashrangach.

That a sum not exceeding £40,310 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1933, for the Salaries and other Expenses in connection with Wireless Broadcasting.

The Estimate for the whole year is £60,310. The accounts last year on a commercial basis, not yet audited, show that our total revenue is £59,229. That was made up as follows:— From wireless licences, £14,750; Customs tax on apparatus which is credited to the broadcasting section of our Department, £43,129; Advertisements, £1,350. The expenditure out of the Vote was as follows:— Broadcasting service, £40,574; Posts and Telegraphs, £5,000; Exchequer and Audit Department, £100; Public Works and Buildings, £1,000; Rates on Government Property, £250; Stationery Office, £100; Costs of Collection of Customs tax, £4,312. There is a gross surplus, on a commercial account basis, of £7,893. From that has to be deducted, depreciation 7½ per cent., and interest 5 per cent.—that is, 12½ per cent. on £26,221, which amounts to £3,278, plus an establishment charge of £1,000. That is deducted from the gross surplus of £7,893, leaving a net surplus, on commercial account basis, of £3,615. These figures, of course, are subject to final correction before they go to the Auditor-General. The Vote is for £60,310 for the entire year. It is reckoned that that will be sufficient to cover the broadcasting service. The total expenditure for the Department is, however, estimated at £88,620, the difference being made up by other Departmental votes as detailed in the Estimates.

The expenditure is made up as follows:—Broadcasting service for the coming year, £60,310; Posts and Telegraphs, £4,610; Exchequer and Audit, £50; Public Works and Buildings, £15,350; Rates on Government Property, £500; Stationery Office, £100; Cost of Collection of Customs Tax, £6,000; Additional Cost of hastening the erection of the High Power Station at Athlone for the Eucharistic Congress (Public Works and Buildings Vote), £1,200; Broadcasting Vote, £500; making an estimated total of £88,620. The estimated revenue from Wireless is:—Licences, £16,000; advertisements, £5,000; Customs Tax on Wireless Apparatus, £60,000, giving a total of £81,000, showing an estimated deficit of £7,620. It is only right to mention with regard to that estimated deficit that this year's figures will include a considerable portion of the cost of the building of the Athlone Station. Capital expenditure on the building of that station during the year was £49,500. It is expected that a comparatively small sum of £7,000 may be due against the capital account of the Athlone station when this year's figures are completed; that is the coming year's full returns if they reach the estimated figure. The number of licences issued during the year 1931-2 was 28,693. The number of licences for valve sets was 24,968 and the number of licences for crystal sets was 3,715. There were 187 licences issued at £1 and 70 licences at £5 each. This is an increase of 2,700 in the total. The revenue from advertisements on sponsored programmes is £1,500, but in the event of sponsored programmes being continued from the new high power station a much higher revenue will be realised. This matter is now being very closely investigated with the view to a proper valuation of such services from the station—the length of time to be made available for sponsored programmes, and the standard of quality to be demanded. Arrangements have been made hastening the work in Athlone, in the hope that we may have the high power station temporarily available for the broadcasting of the Eucharistic Congress. This entails an extra cost of £1,700. It was felt that on such an important occasion we should broadcast from our own high power station. The contractors expect to have everything ready for that work, but this will be for temporary service only. I am not personally conversant with all the details and matters, such as programmes and station orchestra. But all these things are being gone into. I have already done a certain amount of work with regard to them and I will be guided a good deal by any suggestions that may be put forward for consideration here to-day.

[An Leas-Cheann Comhairle resumed the Chair.]

Mr. McMenamin

According to the estimate given by the Minister, the new wireless station in Athlone is to cost approximately £49,000.

Mr. Connolly

The position is that £49,500 was the capital expenditure on the station for this year—that is, on the erection of this high power station. I think that the total cost of the station will be between £70,000 and £80,000.

Mr. McMenamin

I am not quarrelling with the total amount of the cost. The only thing I would like to impress upon the Minister is this: If this money is to be spent, that the Minister, through his technical advisers or whoever is responsible, should insist that this is the most effective wireless station that can be erected. I am not particularly concerned as to the nature of the programmes that are to be given, because if the programmes are not what they should be or what the public want, the public will soon dispose of that. All they have to do is to turn the switch and turn on to another station. The outstanding thing, from the national point of view, is that this new station should be a credit to the country, and that whatever steps are necessary to be taken should be taken now to see that that object is achieved. Speaking of course for myself, I would not limit the question of expenditure on this matter, because it involves the status of the State and it involves its status not only nationally but internationally. For that reason, when this high-power station is being erected, it should be erected in such a way with such efficiency and power that it will be not only a credit to ourselves internally, but that it will be known throughout the world as a high-class station. I would earnestly appeal to the Minister to give very serious attention to this matter, because I submit that it is really more important in the immediate future than any other branch of his Department.

Mr. Briscoe

I rise first of all to congratulate the Minister on the announcement he has made to the effect that the high-power station will be erected and functioning soon. I want to say, had his predecessor listened to the requests made during the past two years to get on with this work, the extra money now being spent to rush the station for the Eucharistic Congress could be saved. I want to ask the Minister to give sympathetic consideration to one or two points I wish to put to him. If the Minister reads the debates criticising this particular Vote during the past four years he will find numerous suggestions made from all parts of the House. To most of those suggestions his predecessor turned a deaf ear. I think it would be well if the Minister went through those debates and gleaned from them certain information. Listeners, and also those engaged in the development of wireless from the point of view of business, are very anxious to have a system inaugurated whereby, while no interference on their part will be made in the functioning of the station, at least their opinions will be listened to, and, if found reasonable, some of them will be adopted.

I would like to know from the Minister what his views are with regard to the Advisory Board. There was an Advisory Board set up, and it was stated by Deputies on previous occasions here that the relations between the Advisory Board and the Department were not satisfactory. Subsequently, members of that Board resigned. At present the Advisory Board, from the point of view of functioning, is non-existent. Is the Minister prepared to look into the whole question of the Advisory Board and its relations with his own Department, with a view to the Board having some say in the future with regard to programmes and the manner in which they should be presented to the public? I am sure the Minister knows there has been a great amount of criticism and discontent at some of the programmes—I will not say all. If he will indicate that he is prepared to set up an Advisory Board to represent the public and the trade he will find that complaints of this nature will cease to exist.

The Minister referred to the number of increased licences. Now is the time when the Irish station will have to give a programme that will be worth while listening to, if the Minister is to look forward to a continued increase in the number of licences. The receipts amounting to £14,000 represent 28,000 listeners. That number has become more or less stagnant for the last few years. The Minister points out that a great amount of the income for the upkeep of the station is derived from revenue from the duty applied to the importation of wireless parts. The Minister will have to realise that wireless apparatus now is more stabilised and there is not the same amount of changing of apparatus or changing of sets as there used to be. Unless the station is going to be of a nature that will attract increased listeners the revenue from licences is going to fall and the Minister will find himself in a position where he will have to get public funds to keep the department going instead of, as at the moment, having it more or less self-supporting. The amount of revenue from Customs and Excise will fall because of the stabilising of wireless sets.

The only way to secure increased revenue is by increasing the number of listeners. I am not saying this in any spirit of criticism. The Minister is to be congratulated on the steps he has already taken. There is great satisfaction amongst the wireless public in the knowledge that they are now going to have a station which can be heard by the people using less expensive sets all over the Free State.

Professor Thrift

In congratulating the Minister on the two statements he has made I would like to draw his attention to a rather important point. From the number of licences taken out in the Free State it would appear that one in every hundred of our population has a wireless set. If we compare that with other countries, Great Britain for example, I think the ratio there is one to every eight, or ten or twelve of the population. It is quite obvious from that that wireless reception here is really in its infancy. I am not going to suggest to-day what would appear to me to be the reason for this great discrepancy. I would like the Minister to find out if he can what are the causes which are delaying so much the spread of wireless reception throughout the country.

Mr. Connolly

I listened with great interest to what Deputy McMenamin said with regard to the position that will have to be faced when our high-power station in Athlone is operating. I agree with every word of that. I am not an expert on wireless and I sometimes have my own doubts as to the desirability of having mechanism in the home as against a certain culture that prevailed perhaps to a greater extent before mechanical methods began to assume such an important part in our lives. However, I agree that if this wireless station is going to be a success we will have to consider it from every point of view and above all from the point of view of what it is going to mean in representing this country nationally and in its national outlook to the world. We cannot have either poor programmes or discreditable programmes once the scope of our broadcasting goes beyond the shores of the country. It is not desirable to have discreditable programmes—and I hope we never did have discreditable ones. With the ears of the world open we will have to realise that our programmes will have to be, first of all national, characteristic of the country, and above all of a very high standard in order to show that we do realise and appreciate what are the things that are worth while.

Personally, I would prefer to see no broadcasting at all in this country rather than have a wireless service which would go outside the country and would not be in every sense creditable to the country. Deputy McMenamin can rest assured that whilst I have any control I will try to see that such programmes only are broadcast as will be creditable from the artistic, the cultural and the national point of view. The line of demarcation between what public taste demands and what we would like to give is a line that has to be very carefully considered, but within certain limits we will try to have as our ideal of what broadcasting should be just such things as Deputy McMenamin mentioned.

Deputy Briscoe referred to the satisfaction he felt at the Athlone high-power station being in operation soon. I would like to make it perfectly clear that the high-power station will be broadcasting for the week of the Eucharistic Congress ceremonies only. The arrangements are being made on a temporary basis. The actual completion of the high-power station will not be until probably about the end of October. Already I have had various communications dealing with the points Deputy Briscoe raised. I do not suppose it will ever be possible to please everybody with a wireless programme. I have heard complaints of different types—the quality of the programmes, and the type of programme, the type of artist and so on.

I have a great deal of sympathy with the director or with any director who is trying to please the entire community with a variety of items on the wireless. All I can say is that we are going fully into the matter to see what can be done with regard to the improvement of the programmes. That, after all, is largely a matter of expense. There is an Advisory Board and I think on the whole this Board has been meeting consistently and such differences of opinion as arose amongst the members of the Board were mainly on the question of the orchestra. That is so far as I know of the matter at the moment. It is felt that the orchestra is insufficient in numbers, that there should be at least twelve to fourteen members in order to supply the different elements that go to make up even a moderately small symphonic orchestra.

My feeling is that once we start our high-power station, whether we make or lose for the first year, we must have quality, adequate numbers in the orchestra, and adequate service from other artists who will be engaged. An important thing that will have to be very carefully weighed with regard to Athlone is the sponsored programme. This will be of very considerable value and I think the advertisers will be found to be ready to pay considerable fees. There is only one possible handicap in regard to that—that we shall always have to exercise strict censorship over the programmes, however tempting the advertising offer may be. I think the House can rest assured that that matter will be attended to. Deputy Briscoe also referred to listeners. I differentiate very definitely between listeners and licensees. Quite a number of people have licences who might not be considered listeners to 2RN. However, the quality of the programmes must be considered if we are to maintain the number of licences. This can be done to a certain extent. If we get increased revenue, we will be able to give really good programmes. It will be necessary, however, to take a chance and gamble on the result by giving decent programmes at the beginning.

I cannot explain to Deputy Thrift why only one per cent. of the population is using wireless, whereas in other countries the percentage is ten or twelve. There are, of course, obvious reasons other than economic reasons. We are an agricultural community and not quite so sophisticated as the city folk of other countries where wireless had its boom before we had even heard of it. This taste can only grow with time. That is always assuming that we desire to see the development of the wireless mentality.

Professor Thrift

Is the matter not worth inquiry?

Vote put and agreed to.