Road Traffic Bill, 1933—Committee Stage.
The Dail went into Committee.
Sections 1 and 2 agreed.
SECTION 3.
In this Act—
the expression "the Minister" means the Minister for Local Government and Public Health;
the expression "the Commissioner" means the Commissioner of the Gárda Síochána;
the word "vehicle" includes every kind of carriage, conveyance, or machine, however propelled or drawn, which is constructed or adapted for use on roads or on permanent rails laid on roads, whether such carriage, conveyance, or machine is supported on wheels, rollers, moving track, or sliding runners, and whether such carriage, conveyance, or machine is or is not used or capable of being used for the carriage of persons or of goods, but the said word does not include any carriage or conveyance which is carried and wholly supported by human beings or animals;
the expression "mechanically propelled vehicle" does not include a tramcar or other vehicle running on permanent rails; the expression "public service vehicle" means a mechanically propelled vehicle used for the carriage of passengers for reward;
the expression "large public service vehicle" means a public service vehicle having seating accommodation for more than six persons exclusive of the driver;
the expression "small public service vehicle" means a public service vehicle which is not a large public service vehicle;
the word "omnibus" means a large public service vehicle which is for the time being used on a definite route for the carriage of passengers who are carried at separate fares and are picked up and set down along such route whether on request or at fixed stopping places;
the word "charabanc" means a large public service vehicle which is for the time being used for the carriage of passengers for reward otherwise than as an omnibus;
the expression "street service vehicle" means a small public service vehicle, the driver of which offers in a public place himself and the said vehicle for hire and for that purpose stands or drives such vehicle in a public place;
the expression "private hire vehicle" means a small public service vehicle which is used for the carriage of passengers for reward and is not a street service vehicle;
the expression "pedal bicycle" means a bicycle which is designed and constructed for propulsion solely by the physical exertions of a person or persons seated thereon;
the expression "pedal tricycle" means a tricycle which is designed and constructed for propulsion solely by the physical exertions of a person or persons seated thereon;
the expression "pedal cyclist" means a person riding or having control or management of a pedal bicycle or a pedal tricycle;
the expression "public place" means any street, road, or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;
the expression "fire brigade vehicle" means a mechanically propelled vehicle owned and maintained by a local authority for the purpose of extinguishing fires or any purpose incidental thereto or for the conveyance of persons employed for any such purpose by such local authority;
the word "ambulance" means a mechanically propelled vehicle specially designed and constructed for the conveyance of sick or injured persons;
the word "road" means any public road and includes any bridge, pipe, arch, gulley, footway, pavement, fence, railing, or wall forming part thereof;
the word "roadway" means that portion of any road which is provided primarily for the use of vehicles;
the word "footway" means that portion of any road which is provided primarily for the use of pedestrians;
the expression "period of summer time" means a period appointed by or under the Summer Time Act, 1925 (No. 8 of 1925), or any enactment amending that Act to be a period of summer time;
the expression "lighting-up hours" means—
(a) in relation to any time which is a period of summer time, the period commencing one hour after sunset on any day and expiring one hour before sunrise on the next day, and
(b) in relation to any time which is not a period of summer time, the period commencing one half-hour after sunset on any day and expiring one half-hour before sunrise on the next day;
the word "driving" when used in relation to a mechanically propelled vehicle includes managing and controlling, and the word "driver" and other cognate words shall be construed accordingly;
the word "owner" when used in relation to a mechanically propelled vehicle which is the subject of a hiring agreement (other than a mere contract for the carriage of persons or goods) or a hire purchase agreement means the person in possession of such vehicle under such agreement;
the expression "prescribed" means prescribed by regulations made by the Minister under this Act.
I move amendment I.
1. In page 6, line 44, to insert after the word "includes" the words "all acts of," and after the word "controlling" to insert the words "incidental thereto either when the vehicle is in motion or when it is at rest."
I move the addition of certain words in order that the meaning of the definition may be made somewhat more clear than it would appear from the Bill. As they stand in the sub-section at the moment the words "managing" and "controlling" are somewhat ambiguous. Supposing that a motor is stopped for any reason, is that part of "driving?" I do not know whether the Minister has had an opportunity of considering it, but it might be held that when the car was stopped it was not being driven, and results might accrue which would involve questions of some considerable difficulty. In order to avoid such difficulties as far as possible, I propose that before the word "managing" in line 44, we add "all acts of" and after the word "controlling" we add the words "incidental thereto" with the addition of "either when the vehicle is in motion or when it is at rest." The paragraph would then read: "The word ‘driving' when used in relation to a mechanically propelled vehicle includes managing and controlling incidental thereto."
This is a similar amendment to one moved by the Deputy when this Bill was being considered before, if I recollect aright.
I think the Deputy noticed that the wording of the section has been changed to meet the view he then put forward, and our view is that the wording of the section, as now drafted, meets all the points put up by the Deputy both on the previous amendment when the Bill was in Committee Stage and now, that the words "managing and controlling" cover fully the points which the Deputy had in mind.
It appears that there is a conflict on the subject, because I am advised that as the words stand at the moment there is ambiguity about them. In order to clarify that situation and clear away any ambiguity, I think the addition is necessary and advisable.
My officials tell me, and we have discussed it at great length, that "managing and controlling" cover all the points necessary and that no ambiguity is likely to arise.
With reference to Section 56, compulsory insurance, in respect of "damages or costs on account of injury to person or property occasioned by the negligent driving of such vehicle at that time by the said driver," I want to know whether that would cover the case in which the driver of a vehicle, bringing it to a stop and leaving it in the street, but not properly securing it, with the result that it moves downhill and injures someone. Would the injury caused by wrong control or absence of control of that particular kind bring the injured party within Section 56, from the point of view of compulsory insurance?
I am informed that it would. I think this point, the Deputy will remember, was discussed at great length in a former Committee Stage, and I am informed, as now drafted, it will bring that person within the section.
One does not like to press a thing too strongly when the Minister has inquired into it, but it does appear that the case put forward is one of negligence in the driving of the vehicle. As to whether that particular negligence is covered by this particular clause is, I think, somewhat questionable. Supposing the engine of a car be left running and from the vibration caused by the running of the engine the car moves off from its standstill with no driver in it, how would that particular point be met under this particular clause?
That is part of "managing and controlling."
In the view of the Minister it is covered.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Sections 3 to 11 agreed to.
SECTION 12.
On Section 12, can the Minister say if it is contemplated that there will be some attempt to control badly packed vehicles? You very often find in the city on flat and unprotected lorries badly packed manure, stones, sand and so on, creating, not perhaps a danger, but certainly a terrible nuisance to the citizens and the Corporation authorities in cleaning up the streets.
I should say that a vehicle packed as the Deputy describes would certainly come within the terms of this section.
Sections 12 to 15 agreed to.
SECTION 16.
(1) The Minister may by order make regulations for all or any of the following purposes, that is to say:—
(a) prescribing the maximum weight unladen of locomotives.
(b) prescribing the maximum weight unladen of vehicles drawn by mechanically propelled vehicles;
(c) prescribing the maximum weight laden of mechanically propelled vehicles and of vehicles drawn by mechanically propelled vehicles;
(d) prescribing the maximum weight to be transmitted to the ground or any specified area of the ground by any part of a mechanically propelled vehicle or of a vehicle drawn by a mechanically propelled vehicle;
(e) prescribing the manner in which and the conditions under which any particular weights prescribed by the regulations are to be ascertained.
(2) Different regulations may be made under this section in respect of different places or areas and in respect of different classes of vehicles.
(3) Every person who uses on any road—
(a) a vehicle of which the weight unladen exceeds the maximum weight unladen prescribed by regulations made under this section and applicable to such vehicle, or
(b) a laden vehicle of which the weight as then laden exceeds the maximum weight laden prescribed by regulations made under this section and applicable to such vehicle, or
(c) a vehicle which or part of which transmits to the ground a greater weight than the maximum weight prescribed in respect of such transmission by regulations made under this section and applicable to such vehicle,
shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding ten pounds.
(4) Whenever a member of the Gárda Síochána observes a vehicle which he suspects of being then used in such manner as to constitute an offence under this section, such member may require the person in charge of such vehicle to do all or any of the following things, that is to say:—
(a) forthwith to bring such vehicle with the load (if any) thereon to a weigh-bridge maintained under this Act named by such member and not more than two miles distant by the shortest available route from the place at which such requisition is made;
(b) to carry such member to such weigh-bridge in such vehicle;
(c) to procure such vehicle with the load (if any) thereon to be weighed on such weigh-bridge in the presence of such member.
Whenever a person in charge of a vehicle fails or refuses to do anything which he is required under this sub-section by a member of the Gárda Síochána to do, such failure or refusal shall be conclusive evidence that such vehicle is at the time when such requisition is made being used in such manner as to constitute an offence under this section.
(5) Every regulation made under this section shall be laid before each House of the Oireachtas as soon as may be after it is made and if a resolution annulling such regulation is passed by either such House within the next subsequent 21 days on which that House has sat after such regulation is so laid before it, such regulation shall be annulled accordingly but without prejudice to the validity of anything previously done under such regulation.
I move amendment 2 on behalf of Deputies Myles and Haslett:
In sub-section (2), line 41, after the word "vehicles" to add the words "Provided that conspicuous notices shall be erected on the approaches to such areas stating clearly the restriction."
Motorists have noticed that in certain areas through which they pass from time to time certain restrictions exist. and the notices, if there be such, in these areas are not at all of a character that would be observable by motorists passing through. For that particular reason this particular amendment is put forward to meet the difficulty.
Deputy Haslett had a similar amendment down when this Bill was discussed in Committee Stage before, and after discussion withdrew it. It was pointed out then, and we are still of the same opinion, that it would not be practicable to put up all over the country notices such as he suggests. Notices with regard to speed limits in certain areas will be put up. They will be necessary, but notices of the type suggested by Deputy Haslett would be quite impracticable in the view of the Department.
I observe that neither the Deputy nor the Minister has communicated to the House what sort of notices they are both talking about. What notices are you talking about?
A Deputy
I presume the Deputy has read the Bill?
Might I point out to the Minister that on the very restriction he refers to about the speed, surely if a restriction like that is to be observed it is necessary that the notice conveying the restriction should be clearly put up and that is all this amendment asks. I think for the protection of both sides it is desirable that notices should be put up in a prominent position so that they may be observed by motorists passing through. It does not appear to me, as one who has some experience of the working of local authorities, that there is any great difficulty in carrying out the obligations which those amendments cast upon the local authorities.
We are certainly strongly of opinion that it would be impracticable to carry out the suggestion made by the Deputy regarding vehicles and weights, and to put up at every corner and on every occasion when there are changes the tonnages and weights of lorries crossing bridges.
I ask the Minister to consider what is the purpose of restricting the weight of a lorry which might cross a bridge. Is it not to preserve the safety of life?
Does the Minister suggest that he will not provide for adequate notice being put up at places where life may be in grave danger? He must put up notices that will arouse attention because of that.
We believe that adequate notice can be given by advertisement in the public Press.
Surely the Minister is quite mistaken there. Let me give a case in point. A bridge crosses the Shannon with which the Minister, in his peregrinations in the West, may be acquainted, where the top weight allowed is four tons. That is between Strokestown and Longford. If a notice is put in the Government Press that the bridge at Carna is not to be crossed by lorries weighing more than four tons no driver in Dublin will know where that bridge is. As a matter of fact the lorries which would imperil the bridge come almost exclusively from the City of Dublin. That case must be duplicated all through the country. Surely the Minister realises that an advertisement in the "Independent" will not meet that case?
I would like to give the Minister another instance——
Perhaps the Deputy will move to report progress.
I move to report progress.
Progress reported. Committee to sit again to-morrow.
