If there is no objection I would like to take the Fifth Stage now.
Agreed.
Finance Bill, 1934—Fifth Stage.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."
I wish to make a few remarks on a couple of items in the First Schedule. In answer to some questions of mine on reference Nos. 5 and 6 the Minister stated as reported in column 756 of the Official Report:—
"With reference to his remarks on reference No. 6, it is correct that the emergency duty no longer applies to these goods. In so far as the general emergency duties on manufactures of steel are concerned they apply only to machinery. It does not apply to any of the items enumerated in that reference."
I take it, then, that I am perfectly correct in assuming that in so far as items 5 and 6 are concerned, there are no emergency duties. I wish also to make some further remarks with reference to item 6. The Bill states:—
"cast-iron articles of any of the following descriptions, that is to say, (a) external water and soil pipes and gutters, and connections therefor."
I do not know that "external" was exactly what the people had in mind. At the same time it does give some idea of what is intended. It is probably used in contradistinction to "underground." I would like to ask the Minister if I am correct in assuming that neither Section 5 nor Section 6 applies to what is technically known as heavy underground cast-iron pipes. I would also like to raise another matter on item 36—"cordage, cables, ropes and twine of hemp or like materials." I understand that some doubt has arisen as to whether cotton comes under "like materials." I would like to suggest to the Minister that cotton was never intended to come in under this section, and that if it had it would have been specifically named. I would like at the same time if the Minister would clear up that point with the other couple of points that I have mentioned.
With respect to the emergency duty, I may have misled the Deputy in some particulars. There are certain cast-iron articles subject to emergency duty still, and will continue to be so subject. The great majority of the articles enumerated at references 5 and 6 are not subject to any duty except the duty imposed by this Bill. In fact, the only case where emergency duty applies that I can recollect at the moment is in respect to gutters. Channels are subject to emergency duty and gutters are held to be such, and so in the case of cast-iron gutters, emergency duties operate. I do not know that that is true of any other articles. The heavy cast-iron underground pipe is not subject to duty under this Bill. I am afraid I did not get the point relating to cotton goods that the Deputy raised.
On item 36, "cordage, cables, ropes and twine of hemp or like materials," I believe that the Minister's idea was that "like materials" meant hemp. There is a question about cotton cordage, and whether it comes under the words "like materials." I suggest to the Minister that he never intended in this section in protecting local industries to put a duty on cotton twine. That is a point that I am making. I would like to say, in no sense of making a speech to answer what the Minister has said, that I am pleased to hear what he said about the heavy cast-iron underground pipes. I really believe that they intended this word here "external" to be above ground. Also with reference to the point that the Minister has raised about "gutters," I think it has been a very old grievance of mine that there was an absurd rule that "gutters" came under the ruling that it was intended to meet—the question of rolled steel channels and gutters. I quite admit that there is something in what the Minister says, but, at the same time, from the point of view of the experts in the trade, it is really absurd. However, I am entirely satisfied with the Minister's announcement that the only items in references 5 and 6 which come under the emergency duties are gutters.
I just want to make some qualification of that. So far as I have been able to ascertain that is so. It was intended that the position should be regularised in that respect, namely, that all these articles should be taken out of the categories subject to emergency duties, and be made the subject of specific duties imposed by a Finance Act. With regard to reference 36, duty is not being charged on cotton twine.
Question put and agreed to.
This is a Money Bill within the meaning of Article 35 of the Constitution.