The order of business will be as on the Order Paper, omitting item 7. Item 2 will be taken in its appropriate place, public business not to be interrupted at 12 o'clock for the purpose of taking Private Deputies' business, and the Dáil to adjourn until Tuesday next.
Order of Business.
We object to the taking of Private Members' time by the Government. As I pointed out last night, the Fianna Fáil Party's theory of democratic government is that if they get a majority in this House it is part of their prerogative to jump on everybody else's face so long as they have power to do so. Our procedure here has always provided that a certain very short time be set aside to give minority Parties and Independent members of the House an opportunity of raising matters in which they are deeply concerned and which Government business gives no opportunity of mentioning. The opportunity for a private individual or for a minority Party to do that is during Private Members' time—a couple of hours on Wednesday, and a couple of hours on Friday when the House sits on the ordinary three days per week. Since this Parliament came into being last July, this House has sat only on one day each week because the Government would not let it sit on more than one day. There may have been one or two weeks in which we sat for two days, but, as a rule, we adjourned at the end of one day's work because the Government's business was not ready. They went so far as to complain that they were getting through too quickly such business as they had ready and that they could not keep the House in session. The net effect was to deprive minority Parties and Private Members of about half the time to which they were entitled for discussion of the motions on the Order Paper. It is an old gag for a Government, if they see a motion on the Paper on which they want to prevent discussion, to delay, to postpone and to block Private Members' business in every way they can and, by every excuse they can devise, prevent that motion coming up for discussion. It is also an old gag, if there is a motion under discussion on which the Government have had a bad time and in which they have been quite unable to answer the arguments put forward, to try to allow a sufficient time to elapse so as to ensure that the public will have forgotten the trend of the argument and the trend of the discussion before it is resumed. Ministers have found themselves quite unable to answer the arguments put forward from this side of the House in connection with the cost-of-living debate and, accordingly, steps are now being taken to try to obliterate that debate from the public mind. There is no excuse whatever for refusing to give Private Members' time this morning. We have been ready to do the Government business whenever they had it ready for the past five or six weeks. They had not their business ready. Remember, in the spring, when the House reassembles, whatever Government is sitting over there will have to ask the House to surrender some of Private Deputies' time in order to get the financial business done before the 31st March. That is inevitable, and all sides of the House know that when we are coming up to the Budget, at the end of the financial year, the Government has to get special accommodation to dispose of the essential financial business. It has, however, always been the tradition that in the knowledge that those demands would be made upon Private Deputies' time in the spring, nothing but the gravest possible matter would justify the Government in asking for Private Deputies' time, either in this session or the summer session. No such situation now obtains. There can be no possibility of the House being unable to get the essential business done between now and the Christmas Recess, and, if there be any danger, it is solely the responsibility of the Ministers themselves.
We are quite prepared to work with the Government up to such date as may be necessary to dispose of the essential business for implementing the Constitution before December 29th. We are prepared to sit until 21st or 22nd December, if need be, but the motion having reference to the cost of living and the suffering of the people arising therefrom should be further discussed and disposed of. We are anxious to see that done, firstly, in order that a vote may be taken upon that motion so that the country may judge the Deputies of this House on the vote they record in connection with it, and, secondly, in order that other motions standing on the Paper thereafter may be adequately discussed and disposed of at the earliest possible moment. We will strongly oppose any suggestion that Private Deputies' time should be taken and will certainly divide the House on any motion to do so.
Mr. Morrissey
The Vice-President did not give any reason to the House when he moved to take the rights of Private Deputies to-day. He merely announced that it was proposed that public business be not interrupted at 12 o'clock. I take it that the reason for the proposal is that the Government want to get the Committee Stage of the Seanad Electoral Bill finished to-day?
That is right.
Mr. Morrissey
Therefore Private Deputies are to be deprived of their rights to cover up the blundering of the Government in connection with that Bill. May I suggest to the President and the Vice-President that the people of this country are to-day much more concerned with the matters covered by the motion which should be taken at 12 o'clock than they are about the Seanad? I do not think the Vice-President would contest that. Deputy Dillon has quite rightly pointed out that, ordinarily, this is a period of the year at which Private Deputies expect to get the time allotted to them under the Standing Orders, because, once we get into the new year, and particularly into the financial business, the Estimates, the Budget, the Finance Bill and so on, the Government must, in order to get that business cleared in time, take practically all Private Deputies' time.
There is the further point, of course, that as a result of the Government's unwillingness or inability so to arrange their business as to keep the House in session since the Dáil was elected, Private Deputies have been deprived of time provided for under the Standing Orders. I do not know whether it is the President's anxiety to get this latest Seanad scheme of his through the House, or his anxiety to stall the discussion on the cost of living and the conditions in the country, brought about by the policy of the Government, that actuates him in trying to stifle the expression of opinion in the House. The President smiles at that. There are many ways of stifling expression in this House.
The Deputy is a great humbug.
Mr. Morrissey
I am glad the Minister thinks. I have something in common with himself. The Minister may not know it, but quite a great number of people in this country think the Minister is a greater humbug, and there is another title which the Minister is given very readily in the country, but the Chair would not allow me to apply it to him.
"The brazen-faced boy" is not unparliamentary, is it?
The Labour Party joins in the protest against this proposed stealing of Private Deputies' time. While I do not agree with most things Deputy Dillon said, the Deputy enunciated a doctrine here yesterday with which I think the Fianna Fáil Party agrees. It was the right of the majority to do wrong. I am prepared to be generous to the Fianna Fáil Party. Some people may suggest that they have not the support of a moiety of the people of this country, but I am prepared to grant for the moment that they have the support of a moiety of the people and, having that support, perhaps they have the right to do wrong. Let us suppose they have. Even though they continue doing wrong, the Standing Orders of this House lay down that Private Deputies should have a certain number of hours each week throughout the year in order that the Opposition, or the minority, may be able to do something constructive.
What!
Believe it or not. Generally, when in opposition, one is not in a position to do anything constructive except by means of suggesting amendments to different Bills. The only method one has is to put down a motion for discussion in Private Deputies' time and, therefore, I suggest that this present attitude of the Government is nothing short of highway robbery in depriving the Opposition of an opportunity, which I am sure they would welcome, of being constructive. On the Order Paper, there are several motions. One concerning the standard of living in this country has been discussed since the House sat. Some Deputies on the Fianna Fáil Benches have suggested that these motions are all cod and that everything on the Paper for discussion during Private Deputies' time is also cod. I would remind the Government that the next item to be taken during Private Deputies' time is the Labourers Bill, submitted by the Labour Party. Am I to take it that this measure, purporting to give relief to the different cottage owners throughout the country, is all cod? If that is the state of mind of the Government, all I can say is that the sooner we have a general election the better. On behalf of the Labour Party, I vehemently protest against this highway robbery on the part of the Government.
In ordinary circumstances this motion would naturally be objected to, but, owing to the conduct of the Government in the last couple of weeks, I think there is an even stronger case against it than could ordinarily be made. On at least two occasions it was pointed out to the Government that, with no inconvenience to Government business, and without any suggestion of obstructing Government business, Private Deputies could have been fully accommodated. The Government has set out to make a new precedent. One precedent they have set and followed consistently this session, that of summoning Deputies from all parts of the country for about two hours Government business per week. They were not even capable of putting before the House Bills or Government work to occupy the attention of ordinary Deputies when summoned up. In these circumstances a proposition was twice formally put to the Government that when Deputies were up they should be met. I remember that when the country was happy enough to have that Party in opposition they were very vehement on the idea of the Government summoning Deputies for two days in the week, and they asked: "Why not allow Thursday for Private Deputies' time?" As was indicated, there is a number of motions on the Order Paper, and if that expedient had been availed of certain Private Deputies would have no grounds of complaint. That was turned down without reason. The Government never give reasons for what they do. They do not think it necessary. Probably they have none. I suggest that the subject matters of these motions are much more vital to the country than the Government business we are supposed to have been busy at since this session started. Certainly there was an opportunity of meeting Private Deputies there, but the Government simply refused to do so. It is quite true that on a few Wednesdays we got more than one and a half hours. That will be admitted. Why? Because of the incompetency of the Government to produce any work for this House to do. The Minister for Industry and Commerce nods. He is in thorough agreement with us once more as to the incompetency of the Government. He knows their incompetency, or, at least, knows the incompetency of his colleagues.
Mr. Morrissey
And 100,000 unemployed know it also.
Owing to their incompetence to produce work, the House was summoned to deal with a couple of hours Government business. As a result we did get a few extra hours for Private Deputies, but every Friday was docked, and two hours Private Deputies' time, normally given on that day, were lost. There was an opportunity of making that up to Private Deputies, but the Government merely said: "We have the majority," and voted it down. Under the circumstances this is a greater outrage. I long ago came to the conclusion that the Government likes trampling on Parliamentary institutions. They like to have the opportunity of doing so, without giving reasons. They adduced a few excuses on Wednesdays because they could not keep the House going with their own business, but they have certainly done everything to see that the motions on the Order Paper are not discussed. They put up long distance orators on these occasions, men who are silent when Government business is being discussed. They are put up on these motions to prevent a decision being taken upon them, and to prevent other questions being discussed.
I wish to protest strongly against the action of the Vice-President. I pointed out in the past that when the Government Party were in opposition they did not want to adjourn even for Christmas. While there were 86,000 people unemployed they wanted the Government to sit until they were able to solve the problem. Now we see what the position is when they are on the Government Benches. As an Opposition we have duties that are just as important as the duties of those sitting on the Government Benches, and we are prepared to do our duty by the people who sent us here. Accordingly, I desire to offer my protest against this proposal. We will persevere until the Government gives an opportunity to discuss the motions on the Order Paper, by sitting more than one day weekly. The Government refused to agree to that. I remember when the President was out for the destruction of the previous Seanad. I have quotations of what he said about that House—that it served no useful purpose. I have been listening for some time to the discussions about the new Seanad, and while I am satisfied that we require a Second House, I do not think there is at the present time any great urgency or rush about the question. The motions on the Order Paper should be discussed, because they bring before the country the conditions which prevail as a result of Government policy. Within the last three or four days we had the British returns showing that 75,000 of our people had left this country within three years. Will any Deputy on the Government Benches deny that it is more important to discuss the reasons why they left than the business now before us? I ask any Deputy on the Government Benches who is a farmer to deny that that is of more importance than a discussion about the new Seanad. It was said in this House at one time that as a result of Government policy the less the farmers got the less they wanted. The Government and the Ministers are now in a different position. Evidently, as a result of increasing their own allowances, they are out for the policy that the less they do the more they make.
Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 56; Níl, 35.
Tá
- Aiken, Frank.
- Bartley, Gerald.
- Beegan, Patrick.
- Boland, Gerald.
- Bourke, Dan.
- Brady, Brian.
- Brady, Seán.
- Breathnach, Cormac.
- Breslin, Cormac.
- Carty, Frank.
- Fogarty, Andrew.
- Fogarty, Patrick J.
- Friel, John.
- Fuller, Stephen.
- Gorry, Patrick J.
- Harris, Thomas.
- Kelly, James P.
- Kelly, Thomas.
- Kennedy, Michael J.
- Killilea, Mark.
- Lemass, Seán F.
- Little, Patrick J.
- MacEntee, Seán.
- Maguire, Ben.
- Meaney, Cornelius.
- Moane, Edward.
- Moore, Séamus.
- Morrissey, Michael.
- Cleary, Mícheál.
- Colbert, Michael.
- Corry, Martin J.
- Crowley, Fred Hugh.
- Davis, Matt.
- Derrig, Thomas.
- De Valera, Eamon.
- Dowdall, Thomas P.
- Flynn, John.
- Flynn, Stephen.
- Moylan, Seán.
- Munnelly, John.
- O Briain, Donnchadh.
- O Ceallaigh, Seán T.
- O'Grady, Seán
- O'Reilly, Matthew.
- O'Rourke, Daniel.
- O'Sullivan, Ted.
- Ruttledge, Patrick J.
- Ryan, James.
- Ryan, Robert.
- Sheridan, Michael.
- Smith, Patrick.
- Traynor, Oscar.
- Tubridy, Seán.
- Walsh, Laurence J.
- Walsh, Richard.
- Ward, Conn.
Níl
- Bennett, George C.
- Benson, Ernest E.
- Brasier, Brooke.
- Brodrick, Seán.
- Browne, Patrick.
- Burke, Patrick.
- Cosgrave, William T.
- Dillon, James M.
- Dockrell, Henry M.
- Fagan, Charles.
- Finlay, John.
- Fitzgerald-Kenney, James.
- Giles, Patrick.
- Gorey, Denis J.
- Heron, Archie.
- Hogan, Patrick.
- Keating, John.
- Keyes, Michael.
- Linehan, Timothy.
- McFadden, Michael Og.
- McGilligan, Patrick.
- McGovern, Patrick.
- McGowan, Gerrard L.
- McMenamin, Daniel.
- Mongan, Joseph W.
- Morrissey, Daniel.
- Nally, Martin.
- O'Donovan, Timothy J.
- O'Leary, Daniel.
- O'Shaughnessy, John J.
- O'Sullivan, John M.
- Pattison, James P.
- Rogers, Patrick J.
- Ryan, Jeremiah.
- Wall, Nicholas.
Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Little and Smith; Níl: Deputies Bennett and O'Leary.
Motion declared carried.