Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 23 Mar 1938

Vol. 70 No. 7

Estimates for Public Services. - Vote 33—Gárda Síochána.

Minister for Justice (Mr. Ruttledge)

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £1,247,942 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1939, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí an Ghárda Síochána (Uimh. 7 de 1925 agus Uimh. 10 de 1926).

That a sum not exceeding £1,247,942 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1939, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Gárda Síochána (No. 7 of 1925 and No. 10 of 1926).

General MacEoin

I resent, in the strongest possible manner, the attitude the Minister took up in reply to my query relating to Marsh's Yard. At no time in my life have I tried to make political capital out of the death of anybody, and nobody should know me better in that respect than the Minister. Charging me with that is equivalent to charging the Judge of the Court, who gave his decision with trying to make political capital out of what had been sworn in evidence before him. I do not desire to say much more than that. I may add that when the Minister made that statement I was obliged to alter the opinion I have held with regard to him; I rather thought that he would have been particularly careful not to use a statement like that.

I should like the Minister at this stage to indicate, if he can, now that we have peace established, when he thinks the Gárda Síochána may again become an unarmed force. When will the arms be taken from them? One would think that it should be no longer necessary to give them to them. The last point I want to make is with regard to the Minister's statement with reference to any Deputy giving him information as to local politicians interfering with the Gárda. I should like the Minister to say what he considers would be interference. Is it interference with a Gárda if a Deputy of the Minister's Party tells him that he would see to it that he would be transferred within the next week for his conduct, that he would be reported to the Minister for Justice, that he would see to it that he would leave, and, unfortunately, the Gárda has left —he left within the following week. Is the Minister not aware of that?

Mr. Ruttledge

With regard to the Deputy's first point, I should like to say that I am entitled to my opinion and I think it was perfectly clear there was political capital made out of this particular matter. As regards the question that has been raised about the Guards being armed, the Gárda was never an unarmed force. That was one of the greatest jokes that was played around this country for years — that the Gárda was an unarmed force. It was nothing of the kind and, in the circumstances, and with the duties that the Gárda had to carry out, it could not be such. But I would be very glad, and I would welcome the day when it would be possible to have the Gárda as an absolutely unarmed force.

General MacEoin

When will it come?

Mr. Ruttledge

There are certain duties the Gárda have to perform from time to time, and perhaps it is the State's duty to see that they are protected when they are going on those difficult and dangerous duties. I should be glad to see the day when the Gárda would be unarmed, but I am not in a position to say whether that is possible at present, or for some time to come. I hope it will be possible and I join with the Deputy in hoping that that day will come soon. With regard to the Deputy's point as to interference with the Gárda, I do regard what the Deputy has referred to, and much less than that as interference.

Vote put and agreed to.