Deputy Mulcahy has given notice of the following question:—
To ask the Minister for Agriculture if he will make a statement to the Dáil on the milk situation.
Private Notice Question. - Milk Situation.
The milk strike referred to commenced on Friday night last, 17th instant. The strike was called by the Dublin District Milk Producers' Association. This association is composed of suppliers who reside in the five counties, Dublin, Wicklow, Kildare, Meath and Louth. The association supplies principally the wholesalers in Dublin. The wholesalers in turn supply the shops where milk to a large extent is sold over the counter to the poorer sections of the population. I would like to say also that before the strike was declared or for some considerable time previous no request had been received by me from the association to discuss the matter with them. When the strike was declared I felt it my duty as the Minister responsible for the Milk (Regulation of Supply and Price) Act, to take such action as would prevent that Act being used to keep supplies from coming into the city and I also felt obliged to go further and to see that supplies were coming in from the creameries in other parts of the country.
To deprive certain people, especially the younger children, of fresh milk, even for a few days, might have very disastrous consequences. The quantity of milk ordinarily brought into Dublin, before the strike commenced, by the Milk Producers' Association was about 19,000 gallons per day and since the strike commenced the average amount delivered for the five days is somewhere between 10,000 and 12,000 gallons. The total quantity of milk coming into the City of Dublin is 38,000 gallons. Half that, which is supplied by producers who deliver the milk from door to door, is not interrupted so that the position is that of the 38,000 gallons which are ordinarily supplied to the city something over 30,000 gallons have been delivered each day since the strike started.
My functions under this Act, the Milk (Regulation of Supply and Price) Act, are principally on one point, that is to hear the views of the board which was set up under the Act, which is composed of the producers, the retailers and the wholesalers, in regard to prices and, having heard their views, to prescribe a minimum price for producers' milk. There was nothing to prevent, and there is still nothing to prevent, producers from meeting the wholesalers and fixing a higher price. I admit that it might be difficult for the Producers' Association to get their members to adhere to such an arrangement if it had not statutory sanction behind it, but, on the other hand, I think that it should have been as easy for the Producers' Association to bind their members to such an agreement with the wholesalers and to get a higher price as it was to bind their members to a strike.
The price fixed has been referred to. The price fixed is 1/4 a gallon delivered here in Dublin; at the farm it is 1/3 per gallon to farmers living within a ten mile radius, which is reduced according to the distance the farmer lives, if his milk is collected, to 1/2 per gallon if the farmer lives more than 40 miles from Dublin. The only comparison I can get at the moment is that for the month of October, which is the last complete month, farmers in Great Britain, supplying milk to towns, got 1/0½d.
I am sure the Dáil will agree with the measures that were taken to deal with this strike.
I would like to report also that this morning I received representatives of the producers and discussed the position with them. In view of that discussion I am not inclined to go further into detail at this stage.
Is the Minister aware that the ordinary milk consumer in Dublin to whom milk is delivered is paying at the rate of 2/4 per gallon, and can he give any undertaking that consumers of milk in the City of Dublin will not have the price raised above such a high figure?
Did the Minister try to ascertain, before he went to this, that, and the other creamery, where he could get supplies of milk from? I think the Minister will understand that what I am getting at is that certain creameries will suffer great hardship, while it might not be a great hardship to other creameries that milk should be commandeered from them. When I say "commandeered" I really mean commandeered with the threat of an inspector behind it that he might withdraw the licence. I have the case of one creamery in mind.
This matter may not be debated now. The Minister, at the request of the House, or rather by consent of the House, has made a statement. Deputies may ask questions within reason, but may not make speeches.
Will the Minister see that he gets this milk from creameries where the least hardship will be created? The Minister will understand what I mean by that. There are some creameries where they have sufficient skim milk and where the milk is more plentiful at these times than in other creameries. There are other creameries where they want skim milk badly and where they cannot do without it as it is part of their feeding. I am not trying to pin the Minister to that now, but I would ask if he will see that the milk is taken from creameries where least hardship will be caused. When other creameries say they cannot give 300 gallons but can only give 50 gallons, will he try to make an arrangement that such creameries will not suffer any hardship? I am referring now to one creamery especially— Ardmayle, near Cashel. It is a small creamery and has been asked to supply 300 gallons.
Is the Minister aware that there is another strike on? In my county we cannot buy or sell milk. I understand that other strike is to get full derating for the farmers. The Minister did not mention anything about that. In Westmeath the farmers are not striking about milk although the farmers in Westmeath will help the milk producers. The farmers in Westmeath are out for full derating. There was no fair in Navan last Monday.
That is quite a separate issue.
I ask the Minister to make some statement about that
Is the Minister aware that very serious inconvenience and confusion have been caused throughout the country through the complete suppression of all news or information in the public Press in connection with this strike and with the general strike? Is he aware that there is very strong indignation amongst the entire farming community throughout the country as a result of the Minister's action?
The Deputy may not initiate a debate even in interrogative form.
I am simply asking the Minister to explain why the entire farming community have been thrown into a state of confusion and not given the information which they would naturally require. As the Minister must know, farmers are isolated throughout the country and have not a speedy means of communication.
The Deputy must confine himself to asking a question and may not make a speech.
I should like the Minister to explain why this complete suppression of news and advertising in the newspapers was ordered by the Government.
Not by the Minister for Agriculture.
As to the question asked by Deputy Mulcahy, whether I can assure the House that no further impost will be put on the consumers, it is rather difficult to reconcile that with the demands of the producers. It is my function under the Act to see that the consumers got milk at as reasonable a price as possible and that side of the position will have to be watched. With regard to Deputy Ryan's question, we have, as far as possible, taken into account the circumstances of the individual creameries when taking milk from them. We may not have had, perhaps, sufficient time during the first fews days to go fully into the circumstances, but I promise that we will go into these circumstances as far as possible if the strike continues. I was also asked about the other strike. Personally, I should like very much to get some information as to what is the meaning of it.
The Minister, like the Deputy, must wait for some other opportunity.
As to the other question put by Deputy Cogan, I think the papers have given quite a lot of information about the strike during the last few days.
Not for the first three days, when there was a complete suppression of all news about it.
There will, I understand, be a question or two on to-morrow's Order Paper on that matter, which may not be anticipated.
I should like to ask the Minister if he would bear in mind that the price of milk for consumers in Dublin is 2/4 per gallon and that, as a result of a price of that particular kind, the consumption of milk by families in Dublin is really inadequate. Will he keep that matter particularly in mind and see why there should be any injustice to the producer of milk when the consumer is paying 2/4 per gallon?
Mr. A. Byrne
I should like to ask whether the Minister is prepared to receive a deputation from the Leinster cowkeepers and those who are providing the milk, and if any application has been made to him to receive a deputation with a view to bringing the trouble to an end?
I do not know whether Deputy Byrne was here at the time, but I said that I received representatives of the producers this morning.
Mr. A. Byrne
I mean the Leinster producers.
Yes.
Mr. Brennan
Why is it they are only getting 1/4 per gallon this year when they got 1/4½ last year?
The merits of this dispute do not arise now.
Mr. Brennan
What compulsion has been put on the creameries who supply the milk? Is it the withdrawal of the subsidy?
No. There is no threat like that. The milk is requisitioned and they will be dealt with under the Emergency Powers Act if they refuse, but not in any other way.
Has the Minister withdrawn the order limiting the supply to four or five counties? Is that permanent or temporary?
A lot depends—
Is the Minister aware, or has it been brought to his notice, that contracts have been entered into already on the basis of the withdrawal of that order?
Contracts by creameries?
Yes.
That is one of the difficulties that we are up against. Naturally, if we ask a creamery or requisition a creamery to supply milk and the creamery then makes a contract for a certain period with some wholesalers here, it will be very difficult for me to go back to the creamery afterwards and say: "You must stop supplying the milk."