I ask the leave of the House to introduce the Landlord and Tenant Bill, 1939. The object of the Bill is as set out in the Long Title on the Order Paper. I do not know whether or not it is the intention of the Government to oppose this Bill. If it is not, I shall be satisfied with formally moving its introduction. If the Government intends to oppose it, I think I am entitled to make a statement in explanation of its provisions.
Private Deputies' Business. - Landlord and Tenant Bill, 1939—First Stage (Resumed).
The Bill is being opposed.
The objects of this Bill are threefold. In the first place, it is proposed to extend certain provisions of the Landlord and Tenant Act, 1930, particularly those relating to compensation for improvements and disturbance, renewal of tenancies and granting of reversionary leases. In the second place, it is proposed to amend certain sections of that Act which have given rise to various anomalies and which have been unsatisfactory when practically applied. In the third place, it is proposed to give tenants, and in particular leaseholders paying ground rents, an opportunity of acquiring by purchase the interest of any person having a superior interest in the property upon such person indicating his intention of selling the same. The Bill proposes no revolutionary principles. It is in some measure an amending Bill. The new provisions relating to purchase are introduced in the hope that they will enable the urban tenants of Ireland to become in time the real owners of their homes. It does not contemplate confiscation or interference with the rights of investors.
The existence of ground rents is a social and economic evil. They are derived from the ancient feudal law of England. They were introduced into this country by virtue of a legal system imposed upon us at the time of the Cromwellian and Williamite period, and, protected by that system, they have been perpetuated and remain to-day as a relic of external domination. During the period when we were controlled by that system and its vague standards of liberal humanitarianism no change in the existing law was to be expected. Foreign in origin and not native to our people, this legal system was taken over by us at the time of the Treaty. Eighteen years later we now seek to remedy one of its most objectionable aspects.
It is the desire of the promoters of this Bill to abolish the existence of ground rents, not by confiscation or compulsion, but by purchase; to enable our people to own the land upon which their homes stand, and to introduce a system of land ownership more in harmony with the ideals expressed in the Constitution and the tendency of modern democratic legislation. The Bill, if passed, will not throw upon the State the responsibility of finding the money to finance the purchase of ground rents. It merely provides a method by virtue of which the people themselves, with their own money, will be enabled to purchase the land upon which their homes stand from those who own and control it in perpetuity. By this means money invested in existing ground rents will be refunded to those who have purchased them and will, in consequence, be available for re-investment in other securities or in productive enterprise.
Now, I gather that at the last annual convention of the Fianna Fáil organisation the subject of ground rents was under discussion, and that the Minister's opposition to it was based mainly on two grounds: firstly, that this Bill, if it were to be introduced at all, is one that should be introduced by the Government; and, secondly, that the introduction of such a Bill at this time was premature, and that it should be held over until the findings of the Town Tenants' Commission were reported. In that connection, I should like to point out to the Minister that the Town Tenants' Commission to which he referred on that occasion was set up in 1935, and that his predecessor in office refused to accept any amendment to the terms of reference of that commission on the grounds that he was not prepared to do anything, or to allow anything to be done, that would in any way delay the findings of that commission. At that time I regarded that commission, and time has proved me right, as nothing more than a smokescreen behind which the Government hoped to conceal its incapacity, ineptitude and failure to give effect to the public pledges and promises that were made to the electorate in 1932 in relation to urban leaseholders and town tenants with regard to the ground rent question. Now, if the Minister is sincere in his first objection, namely, that this Bill is one which should be introduced by the Government itself, I shall make him a present of the Bill and withdraw it without further ado, so long as he is in a position to state that he will introduce a Bill similar to this, and embodying the same principles, within a reasonable time.
When I mention a reasonable time, I do not mean three, five, ten or fifteen years hence. I just want to remind the Minister that the majority of the members of his Party have already intimated to the Leaseholders' Association their intention of supporting this Bill. I mention that fact purely for the purpose of assuring him that, if he is prepared to take up the Bill, irrespective of whatever opposition there might be by the Executive Council, it will carry the support of a majority of the members of his own Party. I would remind him again that, when this Bill came up for discussion at the Fianna Fáil Ard Feis, held a couple of months ago, the majority of the members present at that convention, representing the Fianna Fáil organisation as a whole, in spite of the objections of the Minister and his Ministerial colleagues, passed a motion urging the Minister to accept this Bill.
Mr. Boland
In spite of all the Deputy has said, the Government is opposing this Bill. When I said that if anybody were to introduce this Bill it should be the Government itself, what I meant to convey was that the Bill was too far-reaching to be introduced by a private member.
Has the Minister seen it?
Mr. Boland
Yes, I have.
Well, why should not we see it?
Mr. Boland
The position is this: We are awaiting the Report of the Town Tenants Tribunal. Admittedly, it has been sitting for a long time.
Is it sitting?
Mr. Boland
It is not sitting now.
Deputies rose.
Mr. Boland
Well, if everybody is going to speak together, I suppose I had better sit down. I understood that there was to be just one statement and a reply. If I am not allowed to speak I shall sit down.
Go ahead; it is all right.
Mr. Boland
This tribunal has completed its sittings, but we have not got the Report yet.
If, as a result of that Report, it appears to the Government that there is need for legislation, the matter will be considered and, very likely, the Government will bring in a Bill. I think it would be completely unjustifiable, however, no matter what resolution our organisation may have passed after a few hours' consideration, to expect a responsible Government to allow a Bill such as this to pass, and that is what we are being asked to do now. We are being asked to take off the Whips.
It is scandalous!
Mr. Boland
Well, we are not prepared to do that. The Party has every opportunity of discussing such matters at the Party meetings, just as the Fine Gael Party have opportunities of discussing these things at their meetings, and when we take action like that we take it as a whole, just the same as other Parties do. When we get the Report of this tribunal, it will be given due consideration.
Will you publish the report?
Mr. Boland
Well, that remains to be seen.
It might be a giveaway like the Army report.
Mr. Boland
What I am saying now is that we are not accepting this Bill, and for the reasons stated, which, I think, are pretty plain, but that if it appears, as a result of the tribunal's findings, that there is a case for further amending the law relating to town tenants, or landlords and tenants, then the Government will probably do so.
Probably?
Mr. Boland
Yes, probably. I cannot speak for the Government. An individual Minister cannot speak in advance for the whole Government.
Is that commission set up at the public expense?
Mr. Boland
Well, now, what other expense would it be set up under? It is not set up out of Party funds.
Why not publish the report of a commission that is paid for out of public funds?
Mr. Boland
I said that we would do so, if it were thought necessary.
Perhaps the Minister can tell me if ground rents came within the terms of reference of the tribunal?
That was refused, I think.
When does the Minister hope to get the report of the tribunal?
As late as he can manage.
Mr. Boland
I have done my best; I have tried to get the report.
When does the Minister expect to get it?
Mr. Boland
I was foolish enough on one occasion some years ago to say when I hoped to get a certain thing, but I have been very careful ever since; I have learned my lesson about indicating dates.
Is this tribunal still sitting?
Mr. Boland
It is not sitting. It is merely a question of getting the report out.
The Chairman has since been appointed a judge?
Mr. Boland
Yes.
Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 35; Níl, 65.
Tá
- Bennett, George C.
- Broderick, William J.
- Brodrick, Seán.
- Burke, Patrick.
- Byrne, Alfred.
- Byrne, Alfred (Junior).
- Coburn, James.
- Corish, Richard.
- Cosgrave, William T.
- Curran, Richard.
- Daly, Patrick.
- Doyle, Peadar S.
- Esmonde, John L.
- Everett, James.
- Fagan, Charles.
- O'Higgins, Thomas F.
- O'Sullivan, John.
- Redmond, Bridget M.
- Giles, Patrick.
- Hannigan, Joseph.
- Hughes, James.
- Hurley, Jeremiah.
- Keating, John.
- Keyes, Michael.
- Linehan, Timothy.
- McFadden, Michael Og.
- McGilligan, Patrick.
- McMenamin, Daniel.
- Mongan, Joseph W.
- Murphy, Timothy J.
- Nally, Martin.
- Norton, William.
- O'Donovan, Timothy J.
- Reynolds, Mary.
- Ryan, Jeremiah.
Níl
- Aiken, Frank.
- Allen, Denis.
- Bartley, Gerald.
- Beegan, Patrick.
- Boland, Gerald.
- Bourke, Dan.
- Brady, Brian.
- Brady, Seán.
- Breathnach, Cormac.
- Breen, Daniel.
- Brennan, Martin.
- Breslin, Cormac.
- Buckley, Seán.
- Carty, Frank.
- Childers, Erskine H.
- Cooney, Eamonn.
- Corry, Martin J.
- Crowley, Tadhg.
- Derrig, Thomas.
- De Valera, Eamon.
- Flynn, John.
- Flynn, Stephen.
- Fogarty, Andrew.
- Fogarty, Patrick J.
- Friel, John.
- Fuller, Stephen.
- Gorry, Patrick J.
- Harris, Thomas.
- Hogan, Daniel.
- Kelly, James P.
- Kelly, Thomas.
- Kennedy, Michael J.
- Killilea, Mark.
- Kissane, Eamon.
- Lemass, Seán F.
- Little, Patrick J.
- Loughman, Francis.
- Lynch, James B.
- McCann, John.
- McDevitt, Henry A.
- McEllistrim, Thomas.
- MacEntee, Seán.
- Meaney, Cornelius.
- Morrissey, Michael.
- Moylan, Seán.
- Mullen, Thomas.
- Munnelly, John.
- O Briain, Donnchadh.
- O Ceallaigh, Seán T.
- O'Grady, Seán.
- O'Loghlen, Peter J.
- O'Reilly, Matthew.
- O'Rourke, Daniel.
- O'Sullivan, Ted.
- Rice, Brigid M.
- Ryan, James.
- Ryan, Martin.
- Ryan, Robert.
- Sheridan, Michael.
- Smith, Patrick.
- Traynor, Oscar.
- Victory, James.
- Walsh, Laurence J.
- Walsh, Richard.
- Ward, Conn.
Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Keyes and A. Byrne, Junior; Níl: Deputies Smith and S. Brady.
Question declared lost.