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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 11 Dec 1940

Vol. 81 No. 7

Defence Forces (Pensions) (Amendment) Scheme, 1940.

I move.

That the Defence Forces (Pensions) (Amendment) Scheme, 1940, prepared by the Minister for Defence with the consent of the Minister for Finance under the terms of the Defence Forces (Pensions) Act, 1932 (No. 26 of 1932) and the Defence Forces (Pensions) (Amendment) Act, 1938 (No. 33 of 1938) and laid before the Dáil on the 28th day of November, 1940, be confirmed.

The Defence Forces (Pensions) Act, 1932, empowered the Minister for Defence to prepare a scheme of pensions and gratuities for:—(a) members of the forces; (b) nurses of the Army nursing service; (c) certain ex-members of the Army who had been transferred to the Civil Service or the Gárda Síochána prior to the passing of the Act on the 16th December, 1932. The Act also stipulated that any scheme could not come into operation until confirmed by both Houses of the Oireachtas.

The scheme took five years to prepare, and it was not confirmed by the Oireachtas until 27th October, 1937. It provided: (a) pensions and/or gratuities for members of the forces actually serving on the "appointed day" (27th October, 1937) together with pensions or gratuities for the widows and children of officers who died on or after that day; (b) pensions or gratuities for Army nurses; (c) pensions for the ex-members of the Army transferred to the Civil Service or Gárda Síochána. But between the passing of the Act on the 16th December, 1932, and the confirmation of the scheme on the 27th October, 1937, four officers died while serving; one officer resigned the day before his death, and one officer was transferred to the Gárda Síochána. As the five officers had died before the appointed day, their widows and children were not entitled to pensions; and although the officer transferred to the Gárda Síochána had about 13 years' pensionable service, as the scheme and the Act stood, the provision made for officers similarly transferred could not be applied to him.

It was decided that these six cases should be covered—subject in the case of the five widows to the recovery of any gratuity they had received under Defence Force Regulations — and, accordingly, the Defence Forces (Pensions) (Amendment) Act, 1938 was passed. That Act itself is not sufficient. It is necessary to implement it by amending the original scheme and by having the amendments confirmed by both Houses of the Oireachtas. That is the principal object of the present amendments. The six persons concerned are covered by Articles 8 (a), 9 (3) and 9 (4).

The necessity for amending the scheme so as to implement the Act of 1938 is being availed of as a suitable occasion for carrying out the following other objects:—(a) to provide for the widow of a captain who was a serving officer on the appointed day, but who had not the requisite 12 years' service to entitle his widow to a pension. This is effected by Article 9 (2); (b) to provide gratuities for officers who received short-term commissions in the Air Corps. This is done by Article 6; (c) to provide for officers who may in the future be transferred to the Civil Service or Gárda Síochána. This is the effect of Article 8 (b); (d) to redraft some Articles, and to make certain verbal amendments in others so as to clarify the meaning of those articles where experience has shown their meaning to be obscure or the original intention not fully expressed. This purpose is given effect to in Articles 4, 5, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14.

Thus, Article 4 raises the age-limit for children's pensions; Article 5 provides a gratuity at the rate already obtaining for a second lieutenant where an officer had a number of years' service in non-commissioned rank, but had not the requisite five years' service for a gratuity in commissioned rank; Article 7 brings the terminology of the scheme into line with that of Defence Force Regulations which has altered since the principal scheme was confirmed; Article 9 (1) makes it clear that the widow of an officer who had retired on grounds of ill-health is entitled to pension; Article 10 ensures that the term "additional pay" does not exclude certificate, band, flying or extra pay granted to certain classes of soldiers other than tradesmen, clerks and so on. The Article also secures that men in receipt of such additional pay will not be deprived of the benefit of such pay in calculating their gratuities by the fact that they had been granted pre-discharge leave; Articles 11 and 12 correct slips in drafting, and Article 11 also extends the grounds on which gratuities will not be payable; Article 13 ensures that an officer's widow's right to pension will not be prejudiced by the fact that her husband may die between the date of his retirement and the date of the effective grant of pension; and, finally, Article 14 provides that a soldier's widow or orphans will be entitled to the gratuity which the soldier would have received if he had been discharged from the Army on the date of his death. I ask for confirmation of the scheme by the House.

Will the Minister tell us from what date those pensions which are being awarded to the widows of the five officers in question fall to be paid? Is it only from the passing of the Act?

To what widows is the Deputy referring?

The Minister read out five cases.

That is from the time the gratuity is recovered.

One of the officers concerned died as far back as the 30th day of July, 1938; the second one died on the 20th October, 1937; the third one on the 12th January, 1935. I have not found the date of the other one. A pension is being granted by this order to the widows of those deceased officers. From what date are they entitled to draw those pensions?

Certain amounts have to be recovered as a result of the gratuities that were paid. The dates would be: in one case five years after the 17th March, 1937; in the second case nine years reckoned from the 1st May, 1936; in the third case six years after the 8th December, 1936, and in the fourth case 11 years after the 30th July, 1935. It is a question of recovering the amount of the gratuities. They were larger in some cases than in others.

I take it from the Minister's answer that the pension falls to be paid from the date of the officer's death, and that he is making arrangements then to get refunded sums that were paid as a gratuity. Is that correct?

Actually, in view of the fact that these persons had received these gratuities, the widows were not entitled to pensions. We are trying to redress that. We are endeavouring to ensure that these ladies will get pensions when the amounts which were given as gratuities have been recovered. In other words, the gratuity in one case was £693; it would take five years to collect that sum from 1937.

The pension falls to be paid from the date of the officer's death?

Yes, that is so.

Question put and agreed to.
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