asked the Minister for Supplies if he will state what steps, if any, are being taken to provide fuel and light for the homes of the people in the parts of Dublin where there is neither electricity, gas nor paraffin available for the purpose; if sufficient quantities of turf will be made available for distribution by coal bellmen to their former customers, especially to those who purchased in small quantities such as by bag or in smaller lots.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Fuel and Light.
Householders in Dublin in whose premises neither electricity nor gas are installed will be entitled to purchase from the licensed retailers with whom they are registered a ration of paraffin which has been fixed at a quantity not exceeding half a gallon for the month of September. Such householders, in common with all householders in the non-turf areas, will also be entitled to purchase from the fuel merchants with whom they are registered a quantity of coal or turf which for the two-monthly period of September-October will not exceed the amount of the ration, which has been fixed at quarter ton of coal or half ton of turf or a quantity of coal and turf so composed that the weight of coal plus half the weight of turf will not exceed quarter ton.
Every effort is being made to secure for the non-turf areas the greatest possible amount of turf, which will be distributed through the normal trade channels in conjunction with coal. I have reason to hope that the total quantities of coal and turf which will be available for distribution during the ration period will be sufficient to enable each householder in the area to procure the prescribed ration in one fuel or the other, but it is improbable that the quantity of turf available will suffice to enable all householders to avail of the ration allowance in the form of turf only.
Can the Minister say what is to become of the people who buy fuel in seven-penny worths and twopenny worths, or such quantities for which no coal merchant will accept orders? In the tenement areas of Dublin they buy coal blocks and turf in penny worths and twopenny worths, and these people are not being supplied at all. Will the Minister agree to set up a committee to investigate the conditions of that class of persons, who are the most deserving in the community, and see that they are supplied?
The arrangements which have been made for the distribution of fuel include the provision of a supply for the smaller type of merchants, the bellmen, who normally supply the requirements of the persons to whom the Deputy refers.
Mr. Byrne
But the turf is not yet being distributed in Dublin.
That is quite right.
Mr. Byrne
I have personal knowledge of a child being refused a coal block for 2d. That coal block was urgently needed to cook a meal, but these people were refused, and it is that type of person in which the Ministry should take an interest now. In areas such as York Street, Gloucester Street or the Coombe, the people there buy a coal block for 2d. or slack at 7d. a stone, but the bellmen have not got the supplies.
Will the Minister make special inquiry into that peculiar problem with a view, if necessary, to establishing depôts where the poor could go and buy a coal block if their ordinary supplier is not in a position to supply them?
The Deputy might assume that that particular problem is receiving very close attention in my Department.
But surely it would ease the minds of all Parties in this House if the Minister were to get up and say that he fully appreciates the magnitude of the problem and that he is prepared, if necessary, to establish depôts in the city to which persons who want a coal block will be able to go and buy it for 2d. and bring it home? I admit that it is not an ideal solution, but at least it guarantees that these people will not go hungry or cold.
There is going to be a scarcity of fuel——
Naturally.
——and no arrangements that we can make will avoid that scarcity or that necessity.
That is so.
That is the first thing that Deputies must get into their heads. Arrangements are being made to ensure that there will be available a quarter ton of coal or a half ton of turf, or some combination of these two fuels, for such householders. We have not rationed firewood, which is being distributed at present without being subject to rationing restrictions. The arrangements made with regard to the supply of fuel include the registration of customers with their traders or suppliers, and these people who buy coal in that way are registered with their trader, and to the extent that fuel can be made available it will be given to these customers within the prescribed ration. The regulations also provide for the special case of these people buying small lots, by removing quantities under one stone from any restriction whatsoever.
What about the case of a man who sells these blocks at 4/9, and they are afterwards sold at 2d. a block? There are 48 blocks in a cwt., and I know of people who are paying 2d. a block at present. Will the Minister inquire into cases like these?
Yes, if the Deputy will bring the particular case to my attention.
But the coal merchant now has refused to supply the individual householders any longer. He is selling these blocks to the retailers at 4/9 delivered, and the retailer is selling them and charging 2d. a block.
If the Deputy knows of a retailer who is overcharging I should be glad to have the information.
We have no control at the moment.
Nevertheless, if the information were given to my Department it would be useful in connection with the matter of control.
Is the Minister endeavouring to put the obligation of supplying proof of profiteering on members of this House?
Certainly I am, and I want to make it quite clear that all the price control arrangements we can devise will be completely ineffective unless Deputies of this House will go out and encourage people to give evidence of overcharging to my Department.
What are the Minister's inspectors doing?
With regard to the non-turf areas, where there is no turf available, can the Minister tell us when the supply of coal that we are promised will be available—the 2½ cwts.?
Within a period of two months that quantity of coal will be available, I believe—unless there is a complete cessation of imports, before the end of October. Its internal distribution throughout the area will be effected by the ordinary methods of control.
Take an area such as that in which I live—Clonakilty. We have no turf and permits have been issued for coal, but there has been no coal in the town for months.
It may happen occasionally that there will be no coal available in particular districts, but we are making every effort to ensure that there will be an equal distribution of available supplies.
Is the Minister aware that some people have not been able to get coal for many months? I am one. I have not been able to get any coal since last February, although I am now informed that I was entitled to a ration of a quarter of a ton.
Is the Deputy not living in a turf area?
No; in a non-turf area. It appears that I have been entitled to a ration of a quarter ton of coal or half a ton of turf, but I have not been able to get a stone of coal since the month of February. I am not making my own particular case, but when I cannot get coal what chance has the ordinary customer of getting it?
Is it the Minister's intention to take a census of houses in the City of Dublin in which neither a supply of gas nor electricity is available?
That is a separate question.
How otherwise does the Minister propose to operate the scheme, which he has undertaken to operate, if one is to judge from the reply given to Deputy Byrne?
So far as fuel is concerned, it is rationed on a flat rate basis per household.
My question relates to people who have neither gas nor electricity available. I am asking is it intended to take a census of houses where there is neither gas nor electricity available, otherwise I do not see how the Minister is going to segregate these houses from others.
There is no segregation intended. Coal and turf are rationed on a flat rate basis.
Is it intended to ration timber as fuel?
Not at present.
Or to fix a price?
That matter is under consideration. Again, the Deputy will appreciate that there are other aspects to be considered. A price that will give only a fair profit may possibly result in drying up supplies altogether.
Cannot you commandeer supplies as you commandeered wages?