Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 18 Feb 1942

Vol. 85 No. 13

Committee on Finance. - Vote 10—Public Works and Buildings.

Minister for Finance (Mr. O Ceallaigh)

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim breise, ná raghaidh thar £30,000, chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh Márta, 1942, chun Caiteachais i dtaobh Foirgintí Puiblí; chun Páirceanna agus Oibreacha Puiblí áirithe do Chothabháil; agus chun Oibreacha Dréineála do Dhéanamh agus do Chothabháil.

That a supplementary sum, not exceeding £30,000, be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1942, for expenditure in respect of Public Buildings; for the Maintenance of certain Parks and Public Works; and for the Execution and Maintenance of Drainage Works.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance (Mr. Flinn)

There is nothing much in this particular Estimate. It consists of two sums, one of £75,000 and the other of £60.

General Mulcahy

Nothing much.

Mr. Flinn

Nothing much, having regard to the size of the sums which we are accustomed to dealing with in this House. The £75,000 is for extra fuel. Due to the increasing difficulties of getting fuel we decided to accumulate emergency stores which can be used for public purposes.

The £60 is in relation to the Lough and River Erne drainage scheme. The necessity for the provision of £60 as a contribution towards the cost of gauge reading and the operation of sluices on the Lough and River Erne drainage district arises from the fact that the drainage board which was responsible for looking after the maintenance of this district resigned, and there was consequently no authority to attend to the sluices at Belleek or to pay the sluicekeeper. The maintenance and operation of these sluices are essential for the protection of various important interests, including water power and fisheries, and the arrangement whereby the Commissioners of Public Works and the Northern authorities are providing the requisite funds for this purpose is a stop-gap arrangement pending future development. That, I think, is all that need be said at the moment.

General Mulcahy

The £75,000 here is for emergency fuel stores? That is the purpose of it? It is not for stores for fuel; it is for stores of fuel.

Mr. Flinn

Stores of fuel.

General Mulcahy

The Parliamentary Secretary has not told us where those stores are—whether they are stores in the Phoenix Park, at the canal side or in some of the barracks?

Mr. Flinn

In some of the barracks. I think this is in Kilmainham.

General Mulcahy

I would like to ask the Parliamentary Secretary, now that we are advancing into February, whether any test has been made of the quality of the turf in the stores that are under his control, and if, having made a test, he finds that the turf is satisfactory and can reasonably be expected to burn in the ordinary workingman's grate, will the Parliamentary Secretary take steps to see that those stores are distributed in the city? It is nothing short of shocking to watch what the people have to go through trying to utilise turf in the ordinary domestic way in ordinary homes; I might say even in offices. It is only when you get experience of using turf in an office that you realise what the hardship is when the mother of the house has to use turf when she gets up in the mornings to get an early breakfast for the father and members of the family who are going out to work. In the first place, you have to see what it is like in an office to be driven to go and see it in the home, and then you feel that not only is it a shocking thing to see this additional hardship imposed on the mother of the house but that there is also an appalling lack of comfort and heat, not to mention the delay attached to the cooking of food in those circumstances in nearly every part of the city.

An Ceann Comhairle

I would remind the Deputy that, on a Supplementary Estimate, discussion is confined to what is in the actual items on the Estimate. This is a Vote for an emergency store of turf. It has nothing to do with either quality or distribution of turf fuel in Dublin. The Deputy is therefore straying outside the Estimate.

General Mulcahy

I am not prepared to vote £75,000 for turf if the turf that is here is not in some way worth the money and is not of reasonable quality.

An Ceann Comhairle

Quite in order.

General Mulcahy

I would find it impossible to answer for the discharge of my responsibilities here if I were to agree to a vote of £75,000 that is to come out of the pockets of the people of the City of Dublin for storing what is supposed to be first-class turf in the Park or down at the butter testing station, at the canal, or in any of the barracks here, when the people who will have to provide, in their own small measure through taxation, that £75,000, are trying to handle turf for domestic use in the circumstances I have described, in the depth of winter, although the weather is, fortunately, pretty mild.

I am asking the Parliamentary Secretary to tell us if this turf which has been stored here is any good at all, if he will release it now, as now is the time that it is wanted, and let the rubbish there is at the present moment, if it has to be burned—if it has to be got rid of by anybody—to be got rid of in the summer. Let him give us something at the present time, if we have it in the City of Dublin, that will burn and that will heat. Apart altogether from discomfort, there is an enormous economic drain on the resources of ordinary people in the city by reason of the fact that they are carrying on their domestic work and cooking under most impossible conditions.

Mr. Cole

The Parliamentary Secretary has referred to drainage. I would like to know if he has made any arrangement with the Northern Government with regard to this. There was a committee some time ago representing Counties Cavan and Fermanagh, but it has been dissolved—or at least they resigned. I would like to know who is in charge of that now or what he proposes to do, as there is flooding in this end of that river, owing to Lough Gowna and the River Erne coming down and causing considerable flooding, and there is nothing being done in Lough Erne to relieve that. I would like to know if he has set up any new committee or made any other arrangements to deal with that since the committee resigned?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Parliamentary Secretary to conclude.

Mr. Flinn

If the Lough Erne Drainage District Committee had resigned there would be no one to look after those weirs and sluices. The whole object of it is to regulate those sluices. The defects which were due to the fact that they were not being regulated, have disappeared. On this question I am not in a position to go into the general question of Lough Erne drainage.

In regard to the question raised by Deputy Mulcahy, while I do not think it comes within the scope of the Vote, I am quite prepared to accept it as put forward for the purpose of getting information; and to that extent I would like to be able to help by answering him. As far as this £75,000 for turf is concerned, this turf is of good quality. In relation to stores of turf in the country at the present moment, in the national possession— that is, national turf—an examination is being made of the quality of the turf, not merely from the point of view of its intrinsic quality, but to see what is going on in it from the point of view of the possibility of heat, and whether it is improving or disimproving in the stacks or otherwise. A careful technical examination of that is being made. As far as the turf going to consumers at the present moment is concerned, the Department of Supplies and myself have independently made an examination of the turf in the possession of all those who are authorised to distribute national turf to the consumer. There is no reason why any turf which is not of good merchantable quality should be going out to consumers at present. The turf is being examined coming in, it is being examined going into the stores, and there is a very rigid attempt being made to ensure that, to the extent to which it is possible, turf is of a good merchantable quality.

Again, while I very definitely do not desire a general discussion now on the subject of turf, there was a period in December and January, when, due to the extremely wet weather in the west, turf which we knew to be in perfectly good condition in the ricks on the bogs and on the side of the road could not be broken up, transferred into lorries and then transferred into wagons, without being in a certain intrinsically bad condition; and for that reason the export of that turf was stopped altogether. At the present moment, the most rigid examination is taking place of the turf that is coming in, and I am satisfied that there is no reason at the present time why turf other than good merchantable turf should come in. I know that Deputy Mulcahy is quite clearly and genuinely interested in this and if he would like to make such an inspection I would be prepared to facilitate him. I am not putting this up to him in any way.

General Mulcahy

I know; I quite understand.

Mr. Flinn

The actual position is that the Turf Controller is responsible for turf only up to the point at which he delivers it in bulk at the present moment into the non-turf areas. The responsibility for its sale and the condition in which it is retailed, and so on, is a matter for the Minister for Supplies. We have responsibility for the reputation of national turf and for the work which was done, and we have tried independently to fulfil that; but, over and above that, the Minister for Supplies has satisfied himself that the turf which is going into a merchant's yard at the present moment and available there for distribution is of good merchantable quality. That attitude of mind definitely will be maintained.

Mr. Cole

Will the Parliamentary Secretary make inquiries about the Lough and River Erne drainage, so as to let us know what will be done when the general Estimate is being taken?

Mr. Flinn

Yes, I will do that and deal with it then.

Mr. Cole

The land is being flooded at the present time.

General Mulcahy

On the Parliamentary Secretary's offer, do I understand that, when I or other Deputies in the city come up against cases where turf of an obviously impossible kind finds its way into homes and complaint is made, every facility will be given to discover why it was necessary that any person should sell turf of that particular kind?

Mr. Flinn

In the case of a particular consignment, the person to report to would be the Minister for Supplies, who will examine it. I am speaking now with a knowledge of the inquiries which the Minister for Supplies has made in relation to certain specific cases. I am satisfied that everything is being done to guard the reputation of national turf and to ensure that turf of merchantable quality is available for sale.

General Mulcahy

And the offer the Parliamentary Secretary is making is on behalf of himself and the Minister for Supplies?

Mr. Flinn

Yes; I would be most happy to examine any case.

General Mulcahy

In view of the amount of turf he has in the city, can the Parliamentary Secretary say whether there is any likelihood of any kind of fuel shortage before the next arrivals?

Mr. Flinn

Again, as the Deputy knows, I do not wish to go into supplementary questions, but at the present moment the position is definitely easy.

Vote put and agreed to.

Vote reported and agreed to.