Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 17 Jul 1942

Vol. 88 No. 8

Committee on Finance. - Vote 53—Forestry.

An tAire Tailte (Tomás O Deirg)

Tairgim:—

Go ndeontar suim breise ná raghaidh thar £10 chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1943, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí i dtaobh Foraoiseachta (9 agus 10 Geo. 5, c. 58; agus Uimh. 34 de 1928), ar a n-áirmhítear Deontaisí áirithe i gCabhair.

Tá an Meastachán Breise seo dhá thabhairt isteach ionnas go bhfuighfear údarás na Dála do chaitheamh airgid phuiblí maidir le gné den fhoraoiseacht nach bhfuil áirmhithe faoi cheann ar bith d'fhó-mhírchinn Vóta na Foraoiseachta. Isé an ní é sin, obair thaighdeacháin a bhaineas le mion-phiasta agus fungi dhéanas dochar do chrainn agus do phlanntaí crann i gcoillte agus i bhforaoiseacha ar fud na tíre.

Tuigtear go coitianta go mbíonn mion-phiasta áirithe foraoise i mórán de choillte na hÉireann. Is de ghnáthobair lucht foraoise na mion-phiasta sin do mharbhadh no na crainn do shábháil ortha ar bhealaigh eile. Is goirid o shoin o cuireadh in úil don phobal go raibh mórán de chineálacha eile mionphiast i gcoillte na tíre. Ba mhaith an rud é dá ndéanfaí mion-scrúdú ar na foraoiseacha uilig, idir na foraoiseacha atá faoi'n Stát agus an chuid atá 1 seilbh phríobháideach, le fios d'fháil an bhfuil oiread de na mion-phiasta no fungi sin ann agus do dhéanfadh dochar go cinnte do choillte na tíre seo. Socrófar annsin na neithe is riachtanach do dhéanamh chun cose do chur ar na mion-phiasta no na fungi sin.

Is faoi choimirce Institiúid Árd-Léighinn is fearr a thig obair thaighdeacháin den chineál seo do chur chun cinn. Táthar ag brath an scrúdú seo do chur ar bun faoi threoir Roinn na Talmhaidheachta de Choláiste na hIolscoile i mBaile Átha Cliath, agus fágfar fútha-san eolaidhe a thoghadh a stiúrfas an obair. Tá Uachtaráin Choláiste na hIolscoile sásta cuidiú do thabhairt san obair, agus tá ceaptha £200 sa mbliadhain do thabhairt mar dheontas-i-gcabhair don Choláiste le haghaidh na hoibre seo. Méastar go mairfidh an obair ar feadh tamall de bhlianta.

Séamus O Diolúin

Cé an t-ainm atá ar na "fungi"?

Tomás O Deirg

Níl fhios acu go cinnte fós ach is dócha go bhfuil tuairimí acu.

Séamus O Diolúin

Tá súil agam go bhfuil.

In connection with this pursuit of fungi in the forests of Ireland, I wonder if I might inquire at this stage as to whether these forests, with the protection of which we are now concerned, are being used to the best advantage in the present situation? The point I wish to make is brief and net. The Report of the Public Accounts Committee has been laid on the Table and I am, therefore, free to refer to matters which we discussed in the course of our investigations. It emerged at the Committee that the Army and other public bodies are finding great difficulty in getting supplies of timber and in some cases they had to get timber from outside sources and to pay large sums of money for it. It appears that the secretaries of certain purchasing departments do not ask the Department of Forestry whether they can supply them with sawn timber and that they have been buying timber on the market. Would the Minister consider, as co-ordination officer in regard to timber in the country, taking some measures to ascertain from the purchasing Departments of State what timber they require and whether he would be in a position to supply that timber so as to avoid the State's selling timber to one person on the one hand at a competitive price and, on the other hand, purchasing timber at an enhanced price through other Departments wherever they can manage to find it? I bring all these factors under the heading of "fungi".

Mr. Derrig

Would the Deputy state whether the timber was being bought for fuel purposes or otherwise?

Mr. Dillon

It was bought as scantlings.

Mr. Brennan

If pests and fungi are present in our forests, this is a step in the right direction, but it looks rather peculiar that the Minister, in his statement, did not tell us that some report had been presented to him to the effect that there had been a failure of trees due to fungi or pests. I do not think any report of that nature has been presented to us. I think it would be really useful if we had such a report, because my experience of some trees planted in my district by the Forestry Department is that they are growing very well. I do not know whether this provision is necessary, and no information has been given to us on that matter.

Mr. McMenamin

The Minister has not told us whether these pests, in fact, exist or have done any harm. Admitting that there are certain pests affecting trees throughout the country, has something in the nature of a plague been discovered with which the present foresters are not capable of dealing? Could this pest, if it exists at all, not be dealt with by ordinary spray, or has some pest been discovered that cannot be treated by ordinary spraying?

I should like to know that before this Vote is passed because this may simply be the thin edge of a wedge, something to introduce a huge scheme such as that administered by the warble fly inspectors. You may have officers stuck in every hole and corner, each carrying a tin of powder in his pocket or asking somebody else to carry a tin of powder. I think we should not indulge in this ridiculous expenditure unless we get some definite information from the Minister that there is something substantial in this alleged plague. This method of introducing the matter seems a very obscure way of dealing with it and the House should be told whether there is something that will seriously affect the interests of the country.

Mr. Derrig

Of course, if you call in a scientist, or even a medical practitioner, you are not always in a position to bargain with him in advance to show you that there is something seriously wrong before you employ him. There is a young scientist available who has been working on this matter.

Mr. Brennan

You do not call in a doctor until there is somebody sick. Are the trees sick?

Mr. Derrig

This young scientist has been working on this for some time and the Forestry Branch have no research facilities available. We have embarked on a very considerable scheme of forestry development and it is almost certain that further efforts will be made in the future to extend it. It is going to be a normal feature of our activities here. We have over 100 centres all over the country and we have very large staffs. The trees that were planted 20 years ago under the first forestry scheme are now coming to maturity so that it is a very important thing that every care should be taken to ensure that avoidable disease should be brought to an end by whatever scientific measures may be necessary. The experts who are responsible to me, are fully taken up with ordinary administrative work. They believe strongly that there is a good deal of work to be done in this direction.

This Estimate is no indication that we suddenly discovered that there is some plague, but it is believed that there are these fungi and pests about which very little has been known in this country. It is worth while, in the general national interest, having regard to the large expenditure already incurred on forestry and the fact that it is going to be a permanent function of government here to make these investigations. I shall try next year to have further information for the House on the matter, but I hope it will be realised that it is one which requires detailed examination. There is only one person involved, and quite possibly it may take more than a year before we even have an idea of whether the matter is likely to be serious or whether the service should be continued, but I will try to have fuller information when the Forestry Estimate is being brought in next year.

Mr. Dillon

What about the co-ordinating body?

Mr. Derrig

We are told to supply timber to fuel suppliers or other organisations, and, if Government organisations or Government Departments are looking for timber, the co-ordinating body is the Department of Supplies at the present time. They establish the priority as between the different Departments.

Mr. Dillon

May I ask the Minister this? If the Minister is making scantlings of timber, that is planks and boards, and selling them at a commercial price, and other Departments are buying scantlings and boards at famine prices, surely there ought to be somebody in the Government capable of bringing those two Departments together, instead of having everybody standing around flapping and saying: "It is the other fellow's job." Meanwhile, public works are held up for want of scantlings, and fellows are going into the sawmills of the Department and taking them away.

Mr. Derrig

The Deputy has not even given me an opportunity of seeing whether his account represents all the facts of the situation. Quite possibly there is something in it which has not come out at the Committee on Public Accounts.

Mr. Dillon

Say you will look into it. If you do, that is all I want to know.

Mr. Derrig

Certainly.

Mr. Dillon

But do not tell me it is Seán Lemass's job and you are damned if you will do his job.

Vote put and agreed to.

Estimates ordered to be reported.