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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 May 1943

Vol. 90 No. 3

Committee on Finance. - Vote 49—Science and Art (Supplementary) (Resumed).

The Minister did not make any statement introducing this Estimate and I am anxious to get some particulars. The point I really wish to ask the Minister is with regard to micro-filming work: if the processing will be done locally or will they have to send it out of the country, as the Post Office at present do with airgraph letters? I should like to take this opportunity of saying that many people think that this work, which might be regarded as a war measure, has come to take a permanent place in the ordinary commercial and scientific business of the country. Therefore, I should like to ask the Minister if he could say anything about it.

Deputy Dockrell may not have appreciated that I referred to this matter in my opening statement. The position is that, in connection with the recent transfer of the Office of Arms, the British authorities were informed that our Government attached great importance to retaining in Dublin the records in the office in view of their historical and national interest. In these circumstances, the British authorities accepted the position that the original documents should remain here.

At the same time, they intimated their proposal that the functions hitherto performed by the Ulster King of Arms in respect of Northern Ireland should, in future, be performed by the College of Arms in London—one of the existing Kings of Arms to be styled "Ulster" in addition to his present title. As it would be essential that the College of Arms in London should have copies of certain specified records in the Dublin office, our Government agreed, as a condition of the transfer, to supply such copies of selected documents. The selection was, accordingly, made by the Registrar of the College of Arms, who visited Dublin for the purpose in March. He selected for photographic reproduction 112 large volumes which he considered essential to the work of the Garter Office in London. He suggested that the volumes should be micro-filmed here and that positive prints of the micro-films should be made in England, where there are special facilities for doing it cheaply.

An estimate of the cost of this work was, accordingly, obtained. It was ascertained that the records to be photographed would take about 30,000 exposures on micro-films. The cost of making the positive prints from the micro-film in England would be about £1,250. This part of the work could not be done here. The whole work would therefore cost about £1,400. It is to be noted that the Garter Office, London, is agreeable to returning the micro-film to the National Library, Dublin, when the positive prints are made. This film will be of use here for making positive prints of genealogies required by the public in the future. I think that explains the position with regard to doing the work here; that the making of the film can be done here by a Dublin firm and that what are called positive prints will be made in London, involving the greater part of the cost in this Estimate.

The Minister has now given me the information which I was anxious to obtain, and it is as I feared —namely, that they will make the negatives here with a special camera which has been provided for that class of work. I do not know whether the developing, fixing and washing of the negatives will be done here. But, apparently, when they want positive reproductions or enlargements from that film it will have to go over to the other side. So far as I understand anything about the photographic process, all that is required is an enlarger to bring the prints from the negatives to a size which can be examined. I do not know why a sudden passion has arisen in this Department and in the Post Office for sending work out of this country that ought to be undertaken here. I suggest to the Minister that the process he is speaking about has become an ordinary procedure in all banking transactions in England, and in a whole lot of other similar institutions, and the sooner it is tackled in this country the sooner the necessity will cease for sending these things out to be processed on the other side. I suggest to the Minister that if they paid probably a similar sum to what is proposed to be paid here, they would then be able to obtain in future any reproductions they want in this country, and get them processed here instead of sending them to the other side. It has become an ordinary commercial process there, and if somebody has the courage to instal the necessary apparatus, it will become an ordinary process here.

I take it Deputy Dockrell has no objection to meeting the wishes of the Garter Office in London, to have this particular film sent to them to be printed by their experts there. If there is to be a permanent arrangement, the Ordnance Survey, or whatever Department is in charge, might instal an enlarging apparatus for permanent use here. But it would be ungracious in this particular case to refuse to allow the Garter Office to make their film in London.

If Deputy Dillon wants me to reply to that, I would not suggest that they should not be allowed to carry out the process in this particular instance. But what I wish to point out is that the Estimate for reproducing this would probably go a long way towards providing the apparatus here and that that class of thing has become a commercial transaction. I had a question down to the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs about airgraph letters. I understand the same thing has to be done.

Apart from Deputy Dillon's point that one would like to meet the wishes of the other parties in these negotiations so far as possible, as I think they may be reasonable requests, the position in reply to Deputy Dockrell is that the work, as I am informed, could all be done here, but it would use up too much of our supply of available paper and it is thought, therefore, that the transmission of the micro-films would be the easiest solution of the problem. As I have said, there are over 100 volumes and each volume is pretty large, the total being estimated at over 600,000 pages.

It would not be reasonable to ask for a supply of sensitive paper specially for the job?

I will look into the matter again.

Vote put and agreed to.
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