Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 24 Feb 1944

Vol. 92 No. 13

Committee on Finance. - Vote 61—Posts and Telegraphs.

Minister for Posts and Telegraphs (Mr. Little)

I move:—

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £80,245 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1914, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs (45 and 46 Vict., c.74; 8 Edw. 7, c. 48; 1 and 2 Geo. 5, c. 26; The Telegraph Acts, 1863 to 1928; No. 14 of 1940 (secs. 30 and 31); No. 14 of 1942 (sec. 23); etc.), and of certain other Services administered by that Office.

I should like to say that the general Estimate will be coming on very soon and I hope there will not be a general debate on the matters which I bring forward and which are very limited in scope.

The provision for the service of the Post Office for the financial year ending on 31st proximo, already sanctioned by the Dáil, amounts to a net total of £2,732,210. Due to causes which could not have been anticipated, this provision will be inadequate and, to cover essential expenditure up to the end of the financial year, an additional £80,245 will be required. The actual excess over the approved Estimate amounts to £126,235, but there are offsets of £14,115 from increased Appropriations-in-Aid and of £31,925 from general savings, leaving the net excess £80,245.

Emergency bonus payments account for £40,580 of the additional sum required. Of this amount £38,320 falls under sub-heads A (1) to A (4); £1,850 under sub-head I; £250 under N (1), and £160 under O (1). The causes of other increases are, broadly, as follows:—

Sub-heads A (1) to A (4), £33,975. The additional provision is in respect of extra staff to cope with increased telegraph, telephone and telegraph money order traffic which continues to grow as a result of emergency conditions; increased fuel voucher business; special customs examination of outgoing parcels; extra cost involved by the general election in June of last year, etc.

Sub-head I (1), £10,000. This is due to curtailment of telephone construction works, the cost of which falls on telephone capital, in favour of maintenance and renewal works the cost of which is borne on the Vote.

Mr. O'Leary

I wish to call attention to the fact that a quorum is not present. This is a very important Estimate that is going through and there is no one on the Labour Party Benches.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy formally calls the attention of the Chair to the fact that there is not a quorum present.

Notice taken that 20 Deputies were not present; House counted, and 20 Deputies being present,

Mr. Little

Owing to difficulty in obtaining supplies of engineering stores new construction work is being restricted as far as reasonably practicable.

Sub-head I (2), £3,500. This is due to increased rates of subsistence allowance for engineering staff. Sub-head R £16,885. This is due mainly to replacement of plant, etc., destroyed in one Post Office factory fire in November, 1942. Sub-head N (1), £1,750. This is due to payments in respect of death and marriage gratuities being greater than anticipated.

Sub-head N (3), £2,500. This sub-head provides for payments on behalf of the British Government to Post Office pensioners under the agreement dated 27th June, 1929, interpreting and supplementing Article X of the Treaty of 6th December, 1921. The amount involved is recovered from the British Administration and taken credit for as an Appropriation-in-Aid under sub-head T (12). The increase is due to higher cost-of-living bonus.

Sub-head O (1), £4,035. This represents increased staff costs in the Savings Bank due to the growth of business. Sub-head Q (2), £13,060. This is in respect of additional wireless equipment required for the Shannon Airport. The Post Office acts as agent for the Department of Industry and Commerce in regard to civil aviation and meteorological wireless services.

As already mentioned, receipts under sub-head T (Appropriations-in-Aid) have increased by £14,115, due to additional services performed for other administrations, for the Savings Bank, etc. Against the excess expenditure there are savings totalling £31,925, made up of £24,425 under sub-head E (1), due to decreased payments for the conveyance of letter mails by rail following curtailment of train services; and £7,500 under sub-heads G (1) and G (2), due mainly to delays in delivery of mail bags, cycles and uniform clothing by contractors.

Mr. Dillon

I always find difficulty in criticising the Post Office, because my experience with that Department is one of unfailing courtesy and a desire to assist any citizen of the State who wants assistance. It is always available to anyone who goes to the G.P.O. or the Minister's Department. Nevertheless, I notice that the Minister speaks of the sub-head of the Supplementary Estimate relating to telephone supplies. I do not think we can let any Estimate pass this House referring to telephone supplies, without reminding the Minister how gravely remiss he has been in failing to make adequate provision for the telephone traffic and without expressing the hope that, if and when supplies become available again, the telephone problem will be approached, not on the old basis of waiting for the demand before creating the supply, but intelligently anticipating the demand and keeping the supply of telephone facilities at least 12 months ahead of the existing demand.

I appreciate very warmly the resource and the energy with which the Department has sought to provide telephones in isolated cases where real necessity has been shown, albeit we all know the Department is labouring under very great difficulties at present. Whether the defect in the trunk system to rural Ireland is capable of further remedy than has already been done, out of the limited resources, is a matter on which I would like information from the Minister. Time and time again in this House, I remember Deputy Boland when Minister for Posts and Telegraphs—and that is long enough ago—saying most blandly that, if I ever had to wait for more than 10 minutes for a trunk call, he would like to hear about it, as he would regard that as excessive delay. I never got a trunk call in my life since then within 10 minutes—except once, when I was not ready to take it. The average delay on a trunk call is 20 to 40 minutes and, sometimes, when traffic is heavy, you may have to wait over an hour.

My main experience of trunk calls is from Roscommon to Dublin. I gladly testify to the fact that, when this delay was brought to the attention of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs, they provided an additional line from the town where I live to Sligo. That has relieved the congestion but, while we can get in a hop-step-and-jump to Sligo, there we stop and sit waiting to get on to Dublin, as I say, for periods ranging from 20 to 80 minutes.

If that is not remediable, I think that the Minister should have a guilty conscience for his failure to have anticipated that demand. More especially, I think the Minister should have a guilty conscience when he thinks what might happen to the communications of this country in times of emergency, if they are breaking down so badly in the times of comparative normalcy that obtain at present. I know that military requirements put a substantial additional burden on the equipment, but the burden would be far greater if anything like warlike activities were going on in the country. Therefore, not only for reasons of commerce and not only for amenity reasons, but for strategic reasons, the telephone trunk service of this country should always anticipate the demand by at least-one year, and preferably by five.

I would like to take this occasion to reassure this second Minister for Posts and Telegraphs whom. I have addressed on this particular subject, that no fault will ever be found with the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs for providing excessive telephone services; but, unless and until adequate services are supplied, recurring complaints must be heard on the floor of this House, notwithstanding the unfailing courtesy of the staff over which he presides.

Mr. L. Cosgrave

I have only a short reference to make to two matters which were raised before the Minister. Can he say whether he has done anything to improve the existing supply to Balbriggan? I told him on one occasion that there were only two lines and one of them was nearly always choked by military usage because of the large camp near the town, the telephone traffic coming directly through Balbriggan. Secondly, could he do anything to improve the hours of postal deliveries in semi-urban areas like Clonsilla and Templeogue, where the post is not delivered until about 10.30 in the morning? If you want to collect letters before going to town you have to call at the post office or waylay the postman on the way in.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a matter for the general Vote, there being no reference to it on this Vote.

Mr. Kennedy

I have officially drawn the attention of the Department to the fact that it takes an hour and a half or two hours to make a telephone call from any point in Westmeath—say from Castlepollard—to a nearby town. I have asked for a remedy for that but the people have not got it. There is a big business connection between the two towns.

Mr. Connolly

I am sure we will all be interested to know, in reference to this Estimate, whether the Minister is making any special provision to handle the very increased volume of work, particularly at local post offices, which will occur as a result of the implementation of the Children's Allowances Act. I wonder whether he would give some information as to whether he is taking this matter into consideration particularly in regard to rural districts where perhaps the ordinary resident in drawing the allowances has quite a distance to go.

An Ceann Comhairle

What item in the Vote does that come under?

Mr. Connolly

I was trying to find it.

An Ceann Comhairle

I failed and would like some assistance. It is a matter of general administration and does not arise.

Mr. Connolly

I will leave that to the main Estimate. I would like the Minister to give some information regarding sub-head T (11)—Appropriations-in-Aid—receipts from the British Administration for staffing the wireless stations.

Mr. Norton

The Deputy wishes to know why the British pay us.

Mr. Ó Clérigh

This Estimate provides for an additional bonus to post office workers, and I take it that some part of that bonus will go to the lower-paid grades particularly rural postmen and part-time postmen. I would like the Minister to consider their position at the first available opportunity. Owing to present difficulties, the wages paid to post office workers, such as part-time postmen, who are full-time workers, are scandalously low and, if at all possible, an early opportunity should be taken to give them a further increase in the bonus now being paid, in order to give them a reasonably decent wage for the laborious work they have to do at the moment.

Mr. Little

I am sorry that Deputy Dillon has left the House as I would like him to have heard in propria persona the answer to his query. Our position was very strong at the beginning of the war. We had a three years' supply. I was really very much impressed by the work done by our officials in connection with the amount of supplies and their quickness off the mark, even up to the last minute, when it was possible to bring in supplies.

If it had not been for that ability we would be in a very grave plight to-day for supplies, as a great deal of them were taken up with our emergency services all over the country. Lines had to be laid at all points along the coast, and so on, which took up a great deal of our material. The trunk system has improved considerably, indeed. I do not know when Deputy Dillon last tried the trunk calls, but I have heard nothing but praise since we opened the new trunk centre in Exchequer Street. The position now is that there has been a very great increase in trunk call traffic.

In the past few years, due to the emergency conditions affecting supplies, transport, etc., the total number of trunk calls last year—1943—was 5,944,000 as compared with 3,297,000 in 1938, an increase of 80 per cent. Increase of traffic would, under normal conditions, be met by additional trunk lines throughout the country but, owing to shortage of line construction stores and exchange equipment, it is not possible to provide all the lines required. Considering the difficult conditions, however, the trunk service is reasonably good and delay is not excessive, except on cross-channel calls and on some of the long-distance internal routes such as Cork, Limerick and Sligo during the peak hours of traffic. Possibly Deputy Linehan was referring in particular to the Sligo line. The recent opening of the new trunk exchange has resulted in a considerable improvement of service in Dublin. The speed of answer on calls to "0" for Trunks and to "31" for Inquiries has fallen to an average of about four seconds and, when lines are free, trunk calls are connected at once without the caller leaving the telephone. This condition obtains throughout the greater part of the day on most of the routes from Dublin except on certain long-distance routes to which I have already referred. Delay also occurs at times on point-to-point traffic in various parts of the country owing to inadequacy of lines, but every effort is being made to give as good a service all round as conditions permit.

Deputy Cosgrave raised two matters. One was in reference to Balbriggan. The position now is that there are additional circuits from Dublin to certain places from which complaints were coming, including Newbridge and the Curragh Camp. There is a circuit from Dublin to Balbriggan. This extra circuit accommodation, together with the improved conditions following from the opening of the new exchange in Exchequer Street, has resulted in the almost complete elimination of delays to the places mentioned even during the busiest hours of the day.

The Deputy also made a complaint on the main Estimate last year in reference to deliveries in places like Castleknock. I have before me a list of the changes made due to emergency conditions. Previously the deliveries at Castleknock were at 7.40 a.m. Now they are at 7.50 a.m. At Chapelizod they were at 7.35 a.m., and they are still at that hour. At Clonsilla they were at 7.55 a.m. and now they are at 8 a.m. At Templeogue they were at 7.50 a.m. and now they are at 8 a.m. As the Deputy will see, the difference is not very great.

Mr. L. Cosgrave

In giving the time, does the Minister mean the time of delivery from the General Post Office, or the hour of the delivery of the mail to the people?

Mr. Little

The hours that I have given refer to the actual hours of delivery at the Post Office. The deliveries to the people should commence within a quarter of an hour or so later.

Mr. L. Cosgrave

The postmen are very efficient.

Mr. Little

If there were any reason for complaints, it would be well to get people to make them to the Department. Deputy Kennedy raised the question of trunk calls. I have already answered that in reply to Deputy Dillon's question. Deputy Connolly raised the question of certain Appropriations-in-Aid. These are telegraph services in which, I think, the British have always co-operated. They are at Malin Head and Valentia.

Deputy O Cléirigh raised the question of the bonus and remuneration for sub-postmasters. It would be well to bear in mind that these officers' employment is not of a full-time character. In fact, they do not in practice depend on the Post Office for their sole income. In practically all cases they are engaged in business of one kind or another. Moreover, the numerous applications for sub-office vacancies and the energy with which they are pursued do not suggest that sub-postmasters regard the remuneration offered as being inadequate. In cases where there are exceptional circumstances, special consideration is given to the amount of remuneration to be paid. It is unnecessary for me to mention again what the general scale of the bonus is. That is a matter which has already been dealt with.

Mr. Connolly

Will the Minister say who employs the staff at Malin Head and Valentia?

Mr. Little

We employ the staff and pay a certain amount. There is a certain amount of inter-communication.

Mr. Norton

I congratulate the Minister on having all the answers ready before the questions were asked. It was excellent.

Vote put and agreed to.