Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 16 May 1945

Vol. 97 No. 5

Committee on Finance. - Vote 49—Science and Art.

An t-Aire Oideachais (Tomás O Deirg)

Tairgim:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £44,755 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfas chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31ú lá de Mhárta, 1946, chun Tuarastal agus Costas na bhFundúireacht Eolaíochta agus Ealaíon agus chun Seirbhísí Oideachais Ilghnéitheacha áirithe agus Ildeontas-i-gCabhair.

That a sum not exceeding £44,755 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 1946, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Institutions of Science and Art and for certain Miscellaneous Educational Services and sundry Grants-in-Aid.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will Deputy Mulcahy move his motion to reduce sub-head B (6)?

General Mulcahy

This is such a museum piece of an Estimate that I wonder whether the Minister has any information to give about any aspect of it?

Mr. Derrig

I think the Deputy has a motion down to reduce a sub-head, and we are entitled to know what is the ground of his complaint.

General Mulcahy

I think that when the House is presented with an Estimate in which we are dealing with publications in Irish, the production of plays in Irish, the Irish Folklore Commission, scholarships to Gaeltacht students, the preparation of a revised edition of Handbuch Des Alt Irischen and a grant-in aid of the National Film Institute, that one would naturally expect that the Minister might have something to say about some of them. I move the motion standing in my name:—

That sub-head B (6) be reduced by the sum of £10.

While the motion deals only with one particular item, there are a number of matters about which I should like to say a word. The Minister told us in introducing the Estimate for his own office that it was proposed to set up a group of workers to examine into and report on the history of the famine. He indicated that Professor Dudley Edwards and Mr. W.S. Moody would be responsible for various sections. I was moved by the general effect made on me by the Minister's statement on the position of education in the country to suggest that these gentlemen might be asked to hold themselves in readiness for a different kind of inquiry—to inquire into the position of things in the Department of Education.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy made that contention in his speech on the main Vote.

General Mulcahy

I did, and I do not want to reopen the matter but I think I am entitled to ask for some description of the qualifications and capacity of the workers for whom provision is being made here, so that we could seriously consider whether they could not be used for more urgent work than the Minister intends to put them to. I want to repeat once more that there are likely to be social and economic consequences arising out of our neglect of education at the present time and that the sooner we get somebody to look into that the better. I should like some information in regard to these workers with a view to seeing whether we could not put them to more useful work than writing up the famine. I have no objection to historical research if it is properly and systematically faced and not for political purposes of one kind or another. I think we require a good deal more of it but I do not think we should deflect qualified workers from work that would be of more immediate advantage to-day and I think there is plenty of that work to be done.

In respect to a number of grants provided for here—those for instance to the Irish Committee of Historical Science, Cómhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaedhilge, and the National Film Institute of Ireland—and for some of which large sums are provided, I should like to ask whether the Minister could not provide in some form or another for an annual report which would be presented to the Oireachtas and would be available in the Library. There are matters embraced in the activities of these organisations that are no doubt of interest and worthy of some expenditure but we should have some systematic means of obtaining an account of what is being done for that money. For the Cómhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaedhilge we are granting £5,000 in respect of work which was formerly voluntarily done by branches of the Gaelic League. In addition a substantial amount of money has been spent on Timthirí Gaedhilge in the vocational schools. A lot of that work is work which is making up for defects in either the educational system or the political system here. I think it desirable, when we are starting to spend such large sums on this work, that we should get a report of some kind. I take it these bodies do make a report to the Minister. If they do not, I think they should make a report to the Minister as to the extent of the success of their work. I want to ask the Minister whether he has had any report from any of these bodies in respect of moneys advanced to them for the last year or whether he proposes to get them to make a report on the work of the current year and whether he proposes to present that report to the Oireachtas.

Mr. Derrig

There may be an advantage in having in our annual reports a section dealing with this matter providing an account of the activities of these bodies. I do not think we have asked Cómhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaedhilge for a report on their work but I shall communicate with them. It is not exactly the work that was done by voluntary workers in the Gaelic League or by Irish organisers under vocational education committees. Obviously the standard of the work nowadays is very much higher than it was in the old Gaelic League.

General Mulcahy

Some of it is not very much higher.

Mr. Derrig

I do not know what the Deputy is referring to. If he cannot see any difference between the work done by Cómhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaedhilge, which is trying to bring the language into our national life, in business as well as socially, and the work done by the Gaelic League classes in former times, I am afraid I cannot see his point.

General Mulcahy

Certainly I see no difference.

Mr. Derrig

As regards the work under the vocational education schemes, while we are trying to give them a certain amount of latitude, we know that the resources of committees are limited, that the number of teachers they can employ must be in proportion to their resources, and that only a certain proportion of their budgets can be made available for Irish. They will want to know if organisers are really part of the educational work or part of Irish organising work. I think they can assist in the work of organising Irish outside, but I realise that committees may have other views. As I said on the main discussion we leave these matters to committees, depending on their goodwill. However, I will go into the matter. I think the Folklore Committee issues a report. I do not know if copies are in the Library but I can see that one will be placed there.

As regards the other subject to which the Deputy referred, I doubt if it is in order to discuss the history of the famine, because no financial provision was made for it. I mentioned it because preliminary work would have to be undertaken, and it was as well to refer to it here. The Irish Committee of Historical Sciences was formed by the leading Irish historians in 1937 as a national body to represent Ireland at the International Historical Congress which, prior to the recent war, met every second year. The last meeting at which Ireland was represented was held at Zürich in 1938. The members of the committee received no payment for their work, but a small Government grant, £100, has been provided annually to defray necessary incidental expenses, printing, etc. The Irish committee is representative of the whole country; it includes three representatives of the Ulster Society for Historical Studies. This committee has undertaken to prepare a history of the Great Famine. The members of the committee have been mentioned. It is proposed that the cost of printing the work will be defrayed by a Government grant. I do not think I need go into the financial points this year, except to indicate that the work is being undertaken by this body. It is work of first-rate historical importance which ought to add greatly to Irish scholarship and general knowledge of a very important period for our people.

Motion to refer back, by leave, withdrawn.

Vote put and agreed to.