asked the Taoiseach if he will state in respect of each of the past five years (a) the number of selection boards assembled for the purpose of the making of appointments to posts under local authorities; (b) the number of candidates interviewed by such boards; (c) the number of candidates placed first in order of preference by such boards who were subsequently appointed to the positions for which they were competing; (d) the number of candidates placed first in order of preference by such boards who were not appointed to the positions for which they were competing; and (e) the number of persons appointed who were not placed first in the order of preference by such boards.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Local Appointments.
I assume that the question refers to posts to which appointments are made through the procedure of the Local Appointments Commission which, as the Deputy knows, is a commission functioning under statute.
The preparation of the information sought by the Deputy would require a great deal of detailed work and the examination of a very large number of files and documents. I do not consider that the results would justify the diversion of the energies of the staff which would be entailed with the consequent delays in the work for which they are responsible in regard to both Civil Service and local appointments.
A candidate placed first by a selection board may not for any of a number of reasons, be subsequently recommended by the Local Appointments Commissioners for appointment. Amongst these reasons are the following:—(a) the operation of the preference of extra credit for knowledge of Irish; (b) the failure of candidates, when Irish is an essential qualification, to qualify in the separate test in that subject; (c) the application of the decisions granting extra credit for service with the Defence Forces or Auxiliary Defence Services; (d) the failure of candidates to satisfy the commissioners in regard to the prescribed requirements as to age, health and character; (e) the failure of candidates to produce evidence that they have, in fact, the qualifications and experience claimed by them at interview; and, finally (f) the deelining of appointment by persons placed first by the board.
The grant of the preferences and extra credits to which I have referred is in accordance with the regulations prescribed for the various competitions and the fact that these preferences and extra credits are granted is publicly known.
Will the Taoiseach say whether it would not be equally possible for the selection board as for the commissioners to take cognisance of these requirements and to make allowances for them when placing the candidates?
The statutory body responsible is the Local Appointments Commissioners. The interview board is set up to make recommendations to the commissioners.
In view of the fact that the commissioners delegate the actual making of a selection——
No.
Well, delegate the recommendation for selection to some other body as being more competent to do so than themselves——
They do not; they get a report. What happens is that the commissioners set up a body to interview the candidates with regard to the very special technical matters involved.
Will the Taoiseach say in what way the members of the interview board set up to interview and examine and place candidates in a particular order are not, equally with the commissioners themselves, in a position to make recommendations based on the particular matters to which the Taoiseach refers ?
Surely they are not. The commissioners are there, having a statutory responsibility. They have to examine all the conditions and the various qualifications of the candidates. They appoint an interview board to submit a report on certain aspects.
Why would not the selection board be asked to report on the whole matter?
It is not their business.
That would mean setting up quite a different type of board.
What is the value of placing the candidates in a certain order if they have not, when so selected, the essential qualifications ?
They have. If, for instance, there was a question of the selection of a doctor, he makes certain claims that he has such-and-such qualifications. The selection board has to see him. The question of his qualifications to carry out his work has to be considered. They examine the purely professional side. But, from the point of view of State policy, certain preferences are given for Irish, for example, and in certain cases there must be a competent knowledge of Irish. As I have already indicated, only those who have a competent knowledge of Irish in certain areas will get the preference. In other cases extra credit is given. It is a matter for the commissioners to see that it is done uniformly and, therefore, it is not a matter for the board, which is appointed ad hoc.
Is it not all a waste of time ?
It is not a waste of time. There is no use in anybody pretending that there is anything wrong about it. The whole thing is done in accordance with the statute, and it is done carefully. The report of an interview board is duly taken into account by the Local Appointments Commissioners who make the recommendations for appointment.
Will the Taoiseach say whether it is any part of a selection board's work to report upon a person's competent knowledge of Irish or not?
No; in certain cases, if it were necessary, there would be a special test.
And by whom would that test be carried out?
By a body of examiners appointed for the purpose.
If, as was recently disclosed, a competent knowledge of Irish is not required for the position of rate collector in Ennis, will the Taoiseach say for what positions is a competent knowledge of Irish required?
If the Deputy had been attending, or if he had been here he would have heard me read out a long list giving the conditions governing these matters.
Has there been a recent change of policy in the matter?
I know of no change of policy.
Is it a fact that a competent knowledge of Irish is not required for the position of rate collector in Ennis ?
If the Deputy wants to ask me anything about a special case I will give him an answer. Let him put down a question and I will answer it. I only say that the general rules which govern this matter of preferences were read out by me in the House, and if my attention is drawn to any departure from these, I will have it examined. I am not aware of any.
It is laughable to see Deputy Mulcahy playing Simple Simon in this matter.