I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. In 1940, the Government found it necessary to suspend the operation of the Flax Act, 1936, because of its unsuitability to the new conditions existing in that year. In order to effect the suspension, they made an Emergency Powers Order. That system of suspension of the provisions of the Act has been followed every year since. As Deputies are aware, the Emergency Powers Act is no longer in force. As the conditions which existed in 1940 still remain and the necessity for the suspension of the provisions of the Act continues, it is necessary to introduce this amending Bill, which will give us power of suspension. As my predecessor indicated to the House yesterday it will be necessary to get all Stages of this Bill from the Dáil to-day in the hope of having it law before Friday, 31st January. The Seanad have agreed to meet on Wednesday to take the Bill. I am sure Deputies will not refuse the request that I make in view of the fact that the matter is urgent.
Flax Act, 1936 (Suspension) Bill, 1947—Second and Subsequent Stages.
I have no objection to the passing of this Bill. In fact, I am glad that the first Bill the new Minister for Agriculture has to put before the House deals with the all-important matter of flax. In the area and constituency from which he and I come, flax is grown very extensively. The principal objection I have to the passing of the Bill is that if the average ascertained price per stone for flax falls below the recognised price in the market our Department of Agriculture is not guaranteeing that a bounty will be paid. A bounty should be paid if the flax did not come up to that particular price. We all know what the present position is and we are aware of the weather conditions that prevailed during the past season. I raised matters relating to flax by way of question with the former Minister for Agriculture. In view of the conditions to which I have referred, the flax growers consider that they are not getting a fair price for their product, and that the grading of this year's crop has not been up to their expectations. We may very well have the position here that flax producers, with no guarantee or stability, may decide not to grow flax. According to the statistics, we are aware that the amount of money sent into this country from the British Board of Trade for flax is between £1,500,000 and £2,000,000. If our flax producers have no guarantee I am afraid, in view of what happened last season, that they will be very much discouraged from growing a crop that has brought in so much money. I would ask the Minister seriously to consider the position and at least give some guarantee to the flax producers for the coming year.
I do not know if Deputies realise that the reason why flax had a rebirth of popularity during the recent war was that flax had become as essential a material as oil. The war had been in progress for some time when it was discovered that anti-aircraft fire distributed shrapnel which, when it came in contact with the aeroplane wing, whatever material the aeroplane wing might be made of, inflicted a breach in the smooth surface of the wing. The wind was likely to catch up with it, and the result was that the wing would disintegrate. A variety of remedies was tried out for that. It was eventually discovered that the only effective remedy was to bind the wing of the aeroplane craft with linen. It was glued to it with some kind of plastic. That linen appeared to be the only material which resisted this tendency of the shrapnel to pierce the wing. So far as I am aware that still is the case.
We might as well face the fact that if that ever ceases to be the case flax, as a crop in this country, will vanish overnight. The only substantial market that we have ever had is Great Britain, and Great Britain will not buy flax in this country if she does not want it for that purpose. If, therefore, the position is that this continues to be an essential material the sensible thing to do would be to direct the attention of the Imperial General Staff in Great Britain to the fact that if their Board of Trade is not prepared to pay a remunerative price for the flax our farmers will stop growing it, and that if they want it to be maintained here and have it available in time of war, they had better make sure that the Board of Trade pay a price for it in times of peace so as to induce our people to keep in production. That is the economic commonsense of the situation. But, of course, just as we wanted the turkeys to be green, white and yellow in Dublin, and red, white and blue at Holyhead, I do not suppose it will be considered patriotic or dignified to go to the British War Office, who are our sole customers for flax, and say to them that if they still want flax they must take steps to secure the maintenance of its cultivation in this country.
I see my friend here, the Fianna Fáil Deputy from Cork—Deputy McCarthy —and not a stir out of him. Does he want the flax crop in West Cork maintained? If he does there is only one customer and that is the British War Office. I think Deputy McCarthy ought to tell us to-day whether his patriotic soul dictates to him that, rather than cultivate flax for the British in West Cork, we should get rid of the crop. If, on the other hand, he takes the commonsense view, the view that any crop that can be sold at a profit ought to be maintained, is he going to take the only means that will secure its maintenance, and that is by going to the only potential customer for it and saying: "If you are not prepared to give an economic price now, then when you want this thing badly it will not be there for you to get."
Is the Deputy suggesting that is Deputy McCarthy's duty?
Yes, he is the representative of West Cork.
I think that if the Deputy addresses that question to the Deputies for West Cork he will get his answer.
The Deputy then is from another part of the county?
Yes.
It is a large county and the Deputy knows his colleagues in West Cork better than I do. Perhaps he would send out for them and bring them in here. They are not here now, so far as I can see. I am interested in this business because a lot of flax is grown in the County Monaghan, and I do not believe in doing "under the rose" that which we are ashamed to do coram populo. We sold flax to the British War Office all through the war.
We sold it in the open market. Is not that so?
We sold it to the British Government.
The Deputy is wrong.
No.
It was sold in the market.
It was not. You are quite mistaken.
What is the question before the House? Where we sold the flax?
Yes. The Fianna Fáil Deputies love to say: "Oh, we do not know who bought it; we sold it in the open market and we do not know who bought it." But the Deputies are supporting a Government which appointed inspectors to stand side by side with buyers of the British Government, well knowing them to be buyers of the British Government and in close collaboration with the buyers of the British Government: inspectors appointed by the Deputy's Government to check the grading and see that the flax was handed over to the British Government buyers. The British Government buyers then issued a British Treasury cheque for every stone of flax bought. That is the fact. Deputy McCarthy is shocked. He says it was all sold in the open market, and that he does not know where it went.
The Deputy might now deal with the Bill.
We sold this stuff to the British Government during the war. There is nobody else to buy it. Even if you are ashamed of that, you have to make up your mind to the fact that there is nobody else to buy the Irish flax crop.
I do not come to any such conclusion.
You ought to take the measures now to ensure that the cultivation of this crop will remain profitable between the recent war and the next occasion on which the British Government will engage in another, because if you do not, the flax crop will not be grown. People will not grow it for the sake of smelling the flowers; the only reason people grow it here is for the retting smell, because without that smell you do not get the flax.
I am in favour of keeping the crop. I think it is a valuable crop and it is a crop which certain parts of the country are peculiarly well-fitted to grow profitably. If I were Minister for Agriculture now I would request the Minister for External Affairs to establish contact with the appropriate division of the British Government and put that dilemma to them, that either they are prepared for a long term to offer a remunerative price for flax or we will advise them that the flax crop will cease to be cultivated in this country.
Deputy McCarthy appears to think there are other uses to which the crop could be put. We have not got the consumption here, or the productive capacity to produce linen in this country as a textile for ordinary domestic use. We might as well make up our minds to that. The bulk of our linen has always been exported and, so small is the demand for linen as an ordinary domestic textile, especially in competition with nylon and artificial silk and cotton, we might as well face the fact that it is a dying industry for domestic purposes. I must be one of the very few people left in this country who use a white linen tablecloth.
Why?
They are too expensive, too difficult to wash, too hard to replace.
But they are Irish.
They are, and they are very beautiful, but that does not alter the fact that they will not sustain the flax-growing industry, and we ought to face that fact. I will be interested to hear from our new-fledged Minister, who ought to know something about flax because he smelt it retting often enough, coming from the part of the country he does, does he mean, by representation to the British Government, to take the only effective measure that can be taken to keep this industry in existence, or does he mean to let it die, because, while he and his kind were glad to sell it under the rose to the British Government, they are ashamed to admit in the presence of their fellow-countrymen that that Government is the only buyer we shall have in the future if this crop is to be maintained?
I am not standing here to-day to criticise the new Minister for Agriculture, as the Deputy who has just spoken has been doing. I wish the Minister luck from the start of his career. I am sure he will give every satisfaction in the responsible Department of which he is now the head. I come from a flax-growing district where the poor people have to work long hours. During the bad year they have just passed through, they succeeded in saving their crop, but in doing so they had to work 24 hours a day. I am sure the Minister knows what I am speaking about, because he, too, comes from a flax-growing county. In order to save the flax people have to work night and day.
In my district flax is grown between the town of Bandon and the town of Skibbereen, an area about 20 miles long by 15 miles wide. In the Clonakilty market, for the 1945 crop, the people were paid £250,000, but they were not paid enough considering the hardship they experienced in saving the flax. I do not want to discourage the new Minister, but I would like him to examine the price of flax. The price fixed for the 1945 crop was a minimum of 25/- and a maximum of 31/6. If I am wrong in those figures I will apologise, but I think I am right. The average price paid for the flax in the Clonakilty market was 26/6 a stone. The buyer was from the North, Ulster, Deputy Dillon's country. He fixed the price.
What I want to impress on the new Minister is that Clonakilty market is the only market for the growers in West Cork. I should like the Minister to send to that market the best technical adviser he has. I want him to see that the people growing the flax will get fair grading. I think Deputy McCarthy will bear me out when I say that the average price for the 1945 crop was 26/6 a stone. I admit that in that year we had a number of new growers, but we also had experienced growers who, even when flax went down to the lowest point, still carried on. I should like the Minister to send us a technical expert to examine the conditions in the south and to see that the flax growers there get fair play. Whatever it will cost to do that, it will not make us bankrupt and it will show our people who are interested in flax growing that the Government are doing their best to look after their interests.
I admit that in the case of the 1946 crop the acreage was reduced. The year 1945 was a bad year for selling flax and a number of people who started to grow flax in 1945 ceased to grow it in 1946 because they had not got a satisfactory price for the previous year's crop. The point I want to make is that only experienced growers engaged in the growing of the crop in 1946. The price for the 1946 crop was fixed at from 20/- to 25/- per stone, but in a letter which I wrote to the Minister's Private Secretary a week ago, I stated that I believed, and I still believe, that the average price for the 1946 crop would not be 22/- a stone. Since I came to Dublin on Tuesday, I met some of the scutch mill owners and they informed me that the average price so far paid for flax in the Clonakilty market will not reach 21/- per stone. I appeal to the Minister, therefore, to exercise some control as between the man who comes in from the North of Ireland to buy flax and the man who is selling it here. As an alternative, I would suggest that, instead of leaving our growers at the mercy of Northern buyers, the Minister might approach the Minister for Finance with a view to getting him to establish a linen factory in the area where the flax is grown and produce the finished article there. Let us wear the white linen shirt, such as Deputy Dillon's father and grandfather before him and all our grandfather wore, and we shall not be at the mercy of Northern or English buyers.
I stated a few moments ago that the 1945 crop was responsible for an income of £250,000 in an area 20 miles long by 15 miles wide. In that area there are ten scutch mills. These scutch mills are giving employment to between 500 and 600 men. I was told the night before last by the manager of one of the mills that the amount of money paid in wages in West Cork during the scutching season was very close on £40,000. That, I think, is an important matter for the Minister's consideration. We have heard a lot of talk about the establishment of industries in this country. I am anxious to see industries started in every county in Eire but I do not like to see the Government establishing, as they have been establishing, all these factories here in Dublin.
The Deputy is getting out of West Cork, in which he was so interested a moment ago.
I am speaking about flax.
Flax in Dublin?
No, Sir. I am sorry but when I got up I did not say that I was going to confine myself to West Cork.
To flax.
I want to point out to the Minister that he should not follow the example of his predecessor by establishing all these factories in Dublin. If that policy is continued, and if we are to have the atomic bomb or if we are not to join the United Nations Organisation, where will we be when a war breaks out? I want to see factories started in the poorer districts, even down in Galway. I am sorry if I have annoyed the Minister, but I am sure I have not. I should like to impress upon him that in present circumstances our growers are at the mercy of the buyers. Experienced flax growers who have been attending the Clonakilty market, men who have been growing flax for the last 20 years and who did not get out of production even when the price went down to zero, tell me that they cannot get more than third grade in Clonakilty. They tell me that they have never got first grade in Clonakilty market. These people own land in districts where flax can be successfully grown and they have a long experience of treating it afterwards. It cannot be said that it is through any fault of their own that they did not reach the highest grade. I am sure it is the general experience that when a farmer or any businessman enters a particular line of business he tries to make a success of it. I hold that flax is a paying crop if a good price is given for it. From the time it is planted, it does not require attention in the way of thinning like beet and other crops.
In conclusion, I would ask the Minister to inquire into the matters I have mentioned and if he cannot induce the Northern buyers to pay a proper price, I am sure he has sufficient influence with the Government to induce them to establish a factory in the area where the flax is grown, namely, down in West Cork and to produce the finished article from the raw material. In that way he will encourage the younger generation to do what the old people did about 100 years ago, namely, to buy linen shirts. At that time when a man purchased a shirt it lasted him practically a lifetime.
This discussion has covered quite a range of matters dealing with the whole flax industry. As I tried to convey to the House, this short amending measure was designed entirely for the purpose of doing what was done in recent years by Emergency Order. Deputy O'Reilly from my own constituency seemed to take it that the passage of this amending measure would deprive the growers of any protection as to price. I want to assure the Deputy and the House generally that no such result will follow. It will not surprise even Deputy Dillon to be told that negotiations are in fact in progress with the British Board of Trade for the fixation of next year's price. I can say, too, that while the price is not yet determined, it will be better, in fact substantially better, than last year. The final figure has not yet been determined.
I should not like even Deputy Dillon to look upon me as a person who would not try, where I had something to sell, to get the best possible price for it from whatever person was my customer, and, in a personal way, although the feelings between the Deputy and myself might not be too great, if Deputy Dillon, as a customer, offered me a price for what I had to sell, I should be quite glad to do business with him and anxious to get from him the best price I could. In relation to any other matter for which I have any responsibility, I can assure the Deputy and the House that that would be my approach to it.
And a very sensible approach, too.
I know this flax industry not very well but fairly well and I have full sympathy with those who engage in this type of production because it is very hard work. It is necessary, if flax is to be grown at all, as Deputy O'Driscoll has said, that a fair price should be given, but again we are disposing of the crop to an outside Government. We are often told that that Government is a very good judge of its business and of what it wants when it wants it, and a very good judge also of the price it should offer in order to induce those who can produce it to put it on the market. Looking at it in that way, which I hope is a sensible way, I am prepared to give the British credit for having the intelligence to know when, where and at what price they want a commodity like this, and if they see fit not to give any long-term assurance as to their attitude towards the flax crop, it must naturally suggest itself to me or to my Department that they do not think it necessary to do so.
Speaking for the farmers who grow the crop, I should be glad if such an assurance could be obtained, but apparently that assurance is not forthcoming, and the best we can do is to make the best bargain possible, to induce them to give the best possible price for whatever period they are agreeable to enter into a contract. I can only tell Deputy P. O'Reilly that no significance at all attaches to the little measure I am asking the House to put through now. It merely gives scope and freedom to do something in the flax growers' interest which would not be so easy to do if the 1936 Act were to continue to operate.
The Minister has broken all records. This Bill must be the shortest ever introduced.
Deputy O'Driscoll mentioned a number of other matters, including the advisability from our point of view of supervising the grading of flax. I know the attitude of our farmers and the complaints they have made as to the treatment given to them and their produce in the markets, especially in 1946. I do not want to defend the system which is followed by the graders. I do not know enough about it to speak with authority, but I suppose the House and the producers will realise that those who are buying the crop and paying for it, whatever we may do, will naturally insist on having a large say in the determination of the classification and grading of the article. While I know that that can be carried to unreasonable degrees, to an extent that would be harsh to the producer, I say again that those who want the crop would be very foolish indeed if they were to allow a system to continue which would result in permitting their graders so to depress the flax market as to discourage our farmers from growing the crop.
While accepting to some extent the complaints made by farmers, I give, at the same time, credit to the other people for having some sense. If they have at any time departed from that standard of good sense in relation to the growing of flax, I should like to remind them that if they want the crop to be continued, if they want farmers to grow it, they will have to be careful—not that I would want them to give to the flax a grade to which it is not entitled—to make sure that, when a man takes his flax out on the market, it will get the grade that it is worth. I have tried to convey to Deputies interested, although it is outside the scope of the measure, what we are endeavouring to do on behalf of the flax growers. I know the industry fairly well, as I say, and I know the hardships associated with the growing and handling of flax, and, knowing all that, I should like naturally to be of whatever assistance I can to those engaged in the business.
Every other year, we have had the price at a date earlier than this—about November or December. According to the Minister's estimate, it may be April before we get it this year. When does he hope to be able to make a statement as to the price for the current year?
I cannot say when I shall be able to make a definite statement, but I appreciate the importance of being able to make it as soon as I can. It will not be held back a day longer than is necessary. At this stage, I can only say that a substantial improvement on last year's price will probably result.
Can the Minister say if there is any likelihood of any encouragement for the grower in the matter of grading in the current year? I am speaking on behalf of farmers——
The Deputy may ask a question. The discussion has been concluded.
I am speaking to the Bill.
The Deputy cannot speak to the Bill at this stage. The Minister has concluded the debate on the Second Reading.
There are a few points which I raised which the Minister did not touch on. There is one method of getting over the growers' side of the difficulty about grading.
Is the Deputy asking a question?
I am putting a question to the Minister. There is one method of solving the whole difficulty —grow the flax here and produce the finished article here. I refer to the establishment of a linen manufacturing industry.
The Deputy is not asking a question.
I am, Sir, I am asking the Minister why he did not reply to the points I made. Is that not a question?
Deputy O'Driscoll is interested in West Cork, an area in which flax has, on occasions such as these, always been grown. I come, with Deputy Dillon, from another part of the country in which flax is also a tradition.
Deputy Dillon had no great welcome for it.
I have not given any consideration to the possibility or advisability of establishing the type of industry the Deputy has in mind. If such a proposition were possible surely you must realise that Deputy Dillon and I would co-operate to have the industry established down in our own constituencies so that the Cavan and Monaghan men would not be coming up here to take jobs around the City of Dublin. Would not that be the sensible thing for us to do?
Is that an admission?
Perhaps the Minister would remember that. A few Cork men came up too.