Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 26 Mar 1947

Vol. 105 No. 2

Immature Spirits (Restriction) Bill, 1947—Committee and Final Stages.

Section 1 agreed to.

SECTION 2.

Mr. McMenamin

I move to add a new sub-section as follows:—

No Geneva or other spirit purporting to be gin shall be imported for home consumption unless bearing a certificate setting forth the ingredients used in its manufacture.

If the question cannot be met in this manner, it might be possible to deal with it under the Public Health Acts. I am not concerned which way it is done so long as it is done. I think these people should have to submit a certificate to the Revenue Commissioners or to attach a certificate to the label of the goods or something like that whereby the public would be made aware of the nature of the stuff they were drinking.

Another question I want to ask the Minister is whether he consulted the Irish distillery trade as to what effect the non-restriction on this material is having on their industry?

Minister for Finance (Mr. Aiken)

It seems to me that what Deputy McMenamin has at the back of his mind is that the matter should be dealt with under the ordinary Food and Drugs Act——

Mr. McMenamin

No. It could under the Public Health Acts, but not under the Food and Drugs Act.

Mr. Aiken

——or Orders made under the Public Health Acts. Even if we were discussing such an Act, I do not think that this particular amendment would suit. After all, it deals only with gin imported from abroad. This amendment does not cover gin made at home and neither does it cover other alcoholic beverages which might be imported, and it is by no means comprehensive. As I explained here to the House yesterday, the question of maturity does not come in and this, after all, is an Immature Spirits Bill which deals with the age of the liquors referred to.

Gin, I am informed, is a rectified spirit which does not improve after its manufacture. It is different in that way from wines, brandies, whiskies and other spirits, and simply to say that imported gin must have a certificate showing the ingredients from which it is made gives no indication at all as to its potability or as to its nature. Gin can be manufactured in several different ways, even from the one material. If Deputy McMenamin wants to secure an amended law that gin of all kinds will be as healthy as possible to drink, then he will have to widen his amendment to cover native gin as well as imported gin. If he desires to secure that alcoholic beverages would be wholesome to drink, he would require to go very much farther than this amendment goes.

Mr. McMenamin

Not at all. Rectification does not change the nature of anything. I am not dealing with rectification. You can rectify methylated spirits and submit them to the public for sale as rectified spirits. They could be passed as a consumable article. Surely, this House is not going to permit that sort of thing. I am not sure whether or not this article which I referred to yesterday is made from any material from which any other spirit is manufactured or distilled. It may be made out of some other spirit which has been rectified and, having been rectified, it may be sold to the public. This is really a social question, a question of protecting the community. We know that our own Irish whiskey is made from barley and malt but the distillers have to submit a statement to the Revenue Commissioners setting out the constituents of the whiskey and the whiskey must be retained five years before it is sold to the public. In this case, we have a material of which we know nothing. It may be rectified methylated spirits. Because these people say it is a rectified spirit, it can be sold to the public here, although we take rigid precautions in the case of home-made liquor the constituents of which everybody knows.

I have no power to set this matter right. The Minister for Finance or the Minister for Health has that power. This matter should be attended to immediately. It should have been attended to before now. I ask the Minister to take whatever steps are necessary to see that what I suggest is done. I want to impress upon him not to be deluded by the question of rectification. I came from a poteen making district. They were accustomed to run off the poteen and rectify it or "single" it, as they called it; they ran it off for a second time. We do not know what the constituents of this spirit are and the question of rectification does not really arise. We prescribe certain matters for Irish distillers in regard to the spirits they produce. Here, we have an article which may consist of a material which would not be sold or be permitted to be sold in the country of manufacture. Putting it through a form of rectification does not alter its nature and does not affect the ingredients from which it has been originally made. I think that the public should be protected in this matter.

Mr. Aiken

I do not want to prolong this discussion because I think that this is a public health matter rather than a customs matter. The question of the materials from which a potable liquor is made is not of importance. What does affect the consumer is what is left along with the pure alcohol which is in the spirit. As I informed the Deputy, gin is a rectified spirit. It is not one of those spirits which improve by keeping. Home-manufactured whiskey cannot be sold within five years of the date of manufacture but home-manufactured gin can be sold on the day on which it is made. It does not improve by keeping. What we are concerned with in the case of gin is not its age or the materials from which it is made but what is left along with the alcohol. It is the same with other imported or native-manufactured alcohols.

Mr. McMenamin

The Minister has not grasped the error in this case. The contention is that it does not matter what the constituents of an article for human consumption are so long as it is rectified. That is a social question. It is the duty of this House to protect the public in what they buy or consume. That is the issue. If a thing be wrong ab initio, it will not be made right by rectification.

An Ceann Comhairle

Does the Deputy propose to press the amendment?

Mr. McMenamin

No. I should be defeated if I did. If the Minister is not prepared to accept it, I ask leave to withdraw it.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sections 2, 3 and 4, Schedule and Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment.

Agreed to take the Report Stage now.

Bill received for final consideration and passed.