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Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 4 Jul 1947

Vol. 107 No. 8

Committee on Finance. - Local Government (Sanitary Services) Bill, 1947—Second Stage.

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. As I informed the Dáil last November when the measure setting up the new Departments of Social Welfare and Health was before it, the Government's intention was to retain under the Department of Local Government those services which aimed at creating a sanitary environment, whilst services which were more directly concerned with the treatment and cure of disease would pass to the new Department of Health. The measure which I am now submitting to the House has been framed is accordance with that general line to provide us with a sanitary code better adapted to modern requirements.

The existing powers of local authorities in relation to sanitary services are based on the Public Health Act of 1878. That Act was a consolidating Act and in regard to sanitary matters comprised provisions that previously were to be found in about 20 statutes. It aimed at creating a sanitary minimum, especially in towns where in the last century recurrent outbreaks of epidemic disease claimed many victims. In its time the Act was undoubtedly a great advance. It substituted a constructive code for what had been a negative policy and opened up the way for the many beneficent measures that followed.

It will, however, be readily understood that a sanitary code formulated more than half a century ago requires revision to meet the needs and the higher standards of to-day. The Act of 1878 has been extended and amended, not merely by later Public Health Acts, but by separate provisions scattered through enactments which do not form part of the sanitary laws.

The time is now ripe for a consolidation of sanitary legislation to make it more readily intelligible to persons affected by its provisions. This Bill, while it does not purport to be a full consolidating measure, will provide a measure of consolidation and will also remedy certain defects in the existing law.

The Bill is divided into seven parts. Part I contains the usual preliminary matter, definitions and such like, and the remaining parts deal respectively with drainage, water supply, temporary dwellings and use of land for camping, provision of baths, washhouses, bathing places, etc., disposal of bodies, and miscellaneous matters.

Part II of the measure will strengthen the powers of sanitary authorities to enforce the connection of premises with existing sewerage systems. At present owners of premises can be compelled to connect only in cases where not even an absolute minimum of drainage already exists. I feel, and I am sure the House will feel, that a higher standard than this should be set and that where a public system has been installed, drainage by means of cesspools or similar arrangements should no longer be permitted.

The Bill introduces a new procedure for dealing with this problem. If it becomes law, owners of premises may in future be required on the coming into force of a drainage Order, to carry out specified works for the drainage of separate premises. The conditions for the making of a drainage Order are set out in Section 12 of the Bill.

So far as the works covered by a drainage Order are concerned, the sanitary authority shall lay such portions of them as pass through land not the property of the owner of the premises to be connected and, if the total length of sewers necessary exceeds 100 feet, the sanitary authority shall provide the portions in excess of that length. In other words, an owner of premises to which a drainage Order applies shall in no case be required to meet the cost of laying more than 100 feet of sewer.

Under Section 17 the local authority has power to ascertain the cause of nuisances in drains and to take steps to have the defective drains repaired.

In case of default by an owner the sanitary authority, under Sections 16 and 17 of the Bill, may carry out the necessary work and recover the cost. There is provision, however, in Sections 13, 15 and 17 for an appeal to the Minister in the event of dispute arising in relation to the making of a drainage Order, the works to be executed by the sanitary authority, or payment for works executed by such an authority. Part III of the Bill contains somewhat similar provisions in relation to water supplies. The only existing provision under which a sanitary authority can require a building to be provided with a proper domestic water supply is Section 72 of the Act of 1878. This section is defective in several respects. It takes no account first of all of the improved standard of supply which should be required when the building is in an area where a piped water supply is available. Moreover, it relates only to dwellinghouses, whereas very often it may be desirable in the public interest that buildings not used as dwellings should also be served by a water supply.

Lastly, before a sanitary authority can serve the notice provided for in Section 72 of the Act of 1878, the Minister must determine that the cost is reasonable, yet there is no provision for him to consider representations made by the owner before he comes to his decision in this regard. Under Sections 20, 21 and 22 of the Bill a simplified procedure is laid down for requiring the connection of a house or other building with a public water supply. It empowers the sanitary authority to make a provisional water supply order requiring the connection to be made in a specified manner within a stated time.

Section 23 prescribes that the sanitary authority, as in the case of drainage connections, shall make all portions of the system which are more than 100 ft. from the building to be served. In the event of default, as before, the work can be executed by the sanitary authority and the cost recovered from the owner. An appeal to the Minister is also provided for in the event of dispute. This procedure, it will be seen, follows very closely that prescribed in Part II of the Bill, that part which relates to the making of a drainage Order.

Spring wells on private property are the source of the domestic water supply of many rural dwellers. In many areas where there is at present no public supply, considerable improvement in conditions could be obtained at little cost if the local authority could improve small private supplies. They have at present, however, no power to do this. Section 26 will give them this power and will thus enable local authorities to make grants to private persons, or to incur expenditure themselves, for the provision, improvement or maintenance of water supplies which are not public supplies. The consent of the Minister will be required in all cases.

Difficulty is at times experienced by local authorities in carrying out repairs to water pipes running through land which is not the property of the owner of the premises affected. Power is given under Section 28 to a sanitary authority at the request and at the cost of the owner of the premises to enter on lands for the purpose of carrying out the necessary repairs.

Part IV relates to temporary dwellings and camps. There has been a considerable growth in the practice of holiday camping in tents, huts and caravans and there are indications that the practice is likely to increase in popularity. There is no intention to interfere unwarrantably with this healthy and inexpensive method of holiday-making, but it is felt that some degree of regulation is necessary. The only existing legal power to deal with this matter is contained in Section 20 of the Local Government Act of 1925. This Section was framed primarily, however, to apply to those itinerants who are in the habit of dwelling temporarily on road margins. Something more is needed to deal with the conditions which I have in mind.

Accordingly it is proposed in Part IV of the Bill to give power to sanitary authorities to make by-laws in respect of the use of temporary dwellings. Such by-laws may relate to habitable condition and cleanliness, the prevention of injury to the amenities of the locality, the securing of orderly behaviour by the occupants. The relevant provisions in this respect will be found in Section 30.

Section 31 goes further and empowers sanitary authorities to prohibit temporary dwellings in any part of their district if they are satisfied that the erection or retention of such dwellings would be prejudicial to public health, or the amenities of the district or would interfere to an unreasonable extent with road traffic. This section, I should mention, gives to any aggrieved person a right of appeal to the Minister. Sections 32 and 33 are designed to prevent nuisances arising from the use of temporary dwellings.

I think it will be agreed that if landowners make their lands available for campers as a profit-making enterprise it is not unjust to require them to provide reasonable standards of convenience. Section 34, accordingly, relates to permanent or semi-permanent camping grounds; it provides for the issue of a licence by the sanitary authority to an occupier of land, authorising the use of such land for camping for a period of 12 months. The licence may include conditions as to the maximum number of dwellings, their nature and size, the distances between any two, the distance from the public road, sanitation, behaviour of campers, maintenance of healthy conditions, preservation of amenities and the employment of a warden to supervise the camp.

It will, if the measure passes, be illegal for a person without a licence to use land for camping for more than 14 consecutive days or more than 30 days in a year.

Licences may also be granted by the sanitary authority direct to a camping organisation with the consent of the landowner. Any organisation which desires to avail itself of this provision will require to obtain from the Minister recognition as a camping organisation.

Part V of the Bill introduces a complete code relating to the provision of public baths, including swimming baths. It consolidates and amends the Baths and Wash-houses Act of 1846, Section 77 of the Town Improvement Act, 1854, and Sections 92 and 93 of the Public Health (Amendment) Act of 1907. The existing power to provide these amenities is available to urban authorities and town commissioners, but may be conferred on rural authorities by the Minister under the Public Health Act of 1896. It is now proposed to confer full powers on county councils. It is considered that the financial resources of town commissioners are generally too small to permit of undertakings of this kind but any town commissioners who have already provided baths, etc., will be permitted to continue to operate them. At present a sanitary authority can provide baths only within their administrative area. The Bill extends that power to the establishment of these facilities outside their district subject to the consent of the sanitary authority of the area where the baths will be situated. It is hoped that this power will facilitate the provision of open-air swimming pools. As a natural corollary to all this the Bill also gives power to provide lifeguards and swimming resorts, to arrange for instruction in swimming and rescue from drowning, and to make by-laws for the regulation of swimming baths and bathing places and of public bathing.

Part VI of the Bill contains regulations in regard to the disposal of the remains of deceased persons. While at present burials usually take place in recognised burial grounds, Deputies may perhaps be surprised to learn that there is no legal provision requiring this to be done. If burials are permitted in other places no records are kept and the usual regulations as to depth of soil, etc., cannot be enforced. Accordingly it is now proposed under Section 44 to prohibit burials in any place but a recognised burial ground. Exceptional circumstances may, however, arise occasionally and the Bill makes provision for the consent of the Minister to be obtained in such cases. Sanitary authorities have at present no power to undertake for a consideration the care of graves in burial grounds under their control. This practice is common in the case of burial grounds maintained and controlled by other bodies and it is proposed under Section 45 to give such power to sanitary authorities. Such arrangements are desirable from many standpoints and the power to be conferred, if properly exercised, should bring about an improvement in the appearance of many cemeteries.

Section 46 deals with exhumations. There is at present no power, save under Section 15 of the Coroners (Amendment) Act, 1927, or for police purposes to permit the exhumation of bodies except from burial grounds under the control of sanitary authorities. It is desirable to control exhumations, when required, in other burial grounds so as to ensure that they are carried out with propriety. The section provides that exhumation may be carried out only under licence granted by the Minister. Section 47 empowers the Minister to make regulations to govern the disposal of human remains otherwise than by burial.

The miscellaneous provisions of Part VII are intended to remedy a variety of defects or gaps in existing sanitary law. While urban authorities are at present authorised to provide playgrounds, the position in regard to rural authorities is less clearly defined. Section 48 of the present Bill confers the necessary powers on all sanitary authorities and will simplify procedure.

Section 29 of the Public Health Act, 1878, prohibits the erection of any building over any sewer of an urban authority. It is proposed under Section 49 to extend this prohibition to the erection of any building over a sewer or a water main of an urban or rural sanitary authority.

There has been a considerable change of opinion and of policy in recent years in regard to the method by which special expenses in rural areas are charged and many county councils now prefer to charge all special expenses on the county health district generally rather than to require the expenses to be met in their entirety by the area benefiting, and the new arrangements in regard to the agricultural grant will encourage this tendency. Under existing law the determination of the area of charge requires an Order to be made by the Minister in every case. Under Section 50 of the Bill it is proposed that all such expenses shall be general expenses unless the county council apply to the Minister for an Order fixing a special area of charge.

These are the general purposes of the Bill. I am sure there will be general agreement in regard to them; for all Parties in the House appreciate the importance of creating a healthy environment and the need for good water supplies, good drainage and sewage disposal and other requirements of sanitation. The provisions contained in the Bill are simple and practical and will remove some of the difficulties that hitherto have impeded progress. I am certain that the local sanitary authorities through whose agency we have to work will welcome them. Accordingly, I commend the Bill for Second Reading to the House.

At this stage of the Parliamentary session, we accept the Minister's suggestion that matters which have stood over for the last half-century might very well be reviewed to-day and we are giving a Second Reading to this measure without prejudice to any points that may arise. I feel that this Bill can quite satisfactorily be treated as a Committee Bill when we come back in the autumn.

I welcome this Bill and I look upon the legislation which will be made effective by its final passage through the House as a considerable improvement. When speaking on the Estimate for the Department of Health, I referred to the question of drains convenient to towns which are causing a considerable amount of inconvenience and which have a very serious effect on the health of the community. I know of a number of such drains in my constituency which the local authority has no legal right to put into a proper sanitary state or even to have them piped.

I am satisfied the Minister is going a long way to meet the problem of having proper sanitary accommodation attached to houses and connecting many of these houses up with main sewerage schemes. I hope the necessary steps will be taken as soon as possible to compel local authorities who have houses or cottages of their own in large towns where there are the most elaborate sewerage and water schemes to connect these houses up with these schemes. That is long overdue, and it is in the interests of public health that every house in every town and in villages of from 300 to 400 population should have a proper water supply and proper sanitary accommodation. It is deplorable that in many large provincial towns in which the local authorities have undertaken large schemes of houses only the most modern houses built since 1932 are connected with main sewerage schemes. The failure to connect these houses has a very serious effect on the health of the occupiers and I am pleased that there is to be some improvement in that respect.

I had expected that provision for fair greens would have been made in such legislation as this. In many towns in which fair greens are not available fairs are held in the streets, and a good deal of opposition, perhaps; might come from the trading elements in these towns if the fairs were removed, but I believe that would be a very selfish way of looking at a matter which is important from the point of view of the public health. All sorts of live stock are on the streets for the greater portion of the day. I know many of these towns in which it is impossible for a man to walk through the streets the following morning or even the following evening, in a great many cases. Even in towns where there are not town commissioners, the county councils should be compelled to see that the streets are swept clean after fairs. It is only to be expected that, after a fair, these towns should be in a condition which would enable people to pass along the streets. In my own constituency, I have known cases of fairs being held after which one would be afraid to put one's nose out the door the day after the fair. That is a deplorable state of affairs from the point of view of public health. It may be said that it is not right to take a fair away from a town because it would mean doing away with business, but the fair can be conducted on the fair green and then those engaged in the purchase and sale of live stock can do their business in the towns. I hope the Bill will be amended in such a way as to ensure that, in the absence of a fair green, the local authorities will be compelled to clean the streets immediately after a fair.

As I say, the connecting of houses with main sewerage schemes is long overdue and I am very glad that some steps are being taken in this respect. The Minister spoke about the provision of land for camping. I do not understand the section because I have not read the Bill very closely, and I am wondering if the local authority is to be given power to remove those of the itinerant class who camp convenient to a town and cause a nuisance and annoyance. It is only right that some legislation be enacted to deal with this matter in order to prevent these people from loitering on main roads. One section of people are as good as another and every person has a right to live, but, at the same time, the manner in which people of this class camp by main roads is not a credit to themselves or to the country generally. I am glad that steps are to be taken to see that these people camp in less noticeable places and cause less inconvenience to the general public. The provision of safeguards in respect of swimming pools and so on is also an important point.

Having read over the Bill and having heard the Minister's statement, I find that there is no part of the Bill which is in any way objectionable. The Bill is heartily welcome and I gave the Government an assurance previously that, whenever legislation was introduced to benefit the community, they would get my wholehearted support and co-operation. This is a Bill for the protection of the public health and for bringing about greater efficiency and a Bill which the Minister will experience very little difficulty in piloting through the House after the Recess. He is to be congratulated on the very important provisions contained in it and on the fact that, when the Bill becomes law, it will bring about considerable improvement in many directions.

While I agree that there is very little desire for a prolonged discussion on this Bill, it is well to sound a note of caution, because I do not think the Minister will get all the sections of the Bill without considerable discussion and some attempt at least to amend them. The Bill is non-contentious and represents, in the main, the non-contentious portions of the Public Health Bill discussed last year. With regard to the provisions for the improvement of drainage, water supplies and other amenities, the Government will have wholehearted support, but we must, however, be very careful to ensure that, so far as possible, no injustice is done to local authorities, ratepayers or private owners of property. It is essential that a fair balance should be struck between the rights and interests of the community and the rights and interests of the individual, and while it is desirable, particularly in towns, to ensure that there is proper sanitation and sewerage, there is always the danger that there may be imposed upon some private owner an excessive charge for which he ought not to be held liable.

What I welcome in particular is the provision for improving our water supplies generally. That is one of the most important and most desirable reforms, because it is true that many of our smaller villages are inadequately catered for, and, even where supply systems are installed, perhaps because of the minor nature of the scheme, or because of the limited demand in these places, the entire scheme in many villages I know is not as satisfactory as it should be. I know some villages in which the people, notwithstanding the fact that they have a piped water supply, still depend for their drinking water on their private wells. They find the piped water is unsatisfactory for drinking purposes. It may pass all the medical tests, tests in regard to chemical analysis; it may be all right that way, but it is unsatisfactory from the drinking point of view. Possibly, that is because the schemes are small and it may not be so easy to have proper filtering and the proper precautions to ensure that the water will always be in good condition.

With regard to the rural areas, it is absolutely necessary to make a big step forward. I do not believe in a piped water supply for houses in the rural areas. The spring well is the best. I am not particularly keen on rural houses having water laid into them, because that would be very expensive. You want an all the year round water supply convenient to the kitchen door. If you can achieve that, you are getting a long distance. The main thing is that the water should be good and that it will be in sufficient supply the whole year round. The position in regard to many areas is that you have one pump catering for nine or ten houses, and that is not satisfactory. It means that the woman of the house has to travel sometimes a quarter of a mile in order to procure water and, in addition, it means that the pump is public property and it is liable to be damaged.

The Bill makes provision for swimming pools. I think every urban centre should have swimming facilities. Nothing is more conducive to a better standard of living and to health exercises for our people. I have often wondered would it be desirable to provide this amenity free, or would it be better to have a charge. My feeling is that any amenity of this kind is more appreciated if there is a reasonable charge for admission. Usually you find that where you have a public swimming pool and there is no charge, it is not appreciated to any great extent. I suppose that if cinemas were open all day and there was no charge, we might not have such long queues for admission. I think that if a swimming pool was covered to provide protection from the weather, a pool which would give all the necessary comforts and amenities, the public would be quite willing and happy to pay a molerate charge for admission and would regard it as a very desirable thing.

Strangely enough, I am inclined to agree with Deputy Flanagan with regard to fairs on streets. It is a rather extraordinary thing that there is tremendous opposition to the removal of fairs from the public streets. Farmers generally, however, would be inclined to welcome the provision of fair greens, provided they were convenient to the railway stations or to the loading banks.

Or the pubs.

So far as farmers are concerned, they will always find their way to the pubs if they have the money. We have gone through times when farmers took their cattle to the fair and found their pockets were so empty that they had to remain on the streets all day, even though the pubs were only a few yards away, and that was simply because their cattle were unsaleable. These days, I hope, have passed. The publichouses are always near enough to anyone who has the money to enjoy them. I think it would be in the public interest and in the farmers' interest, too, if proper fair greens were provided. It is not that I hold the view— perhaps it is because I am a farmer— that cattle are unhealthy or create unhealthy conditions. Actually, cattle do not carry any disease, whatever they may do with regard to upsetting the general appearance of a street.

I think the sections dealing with huts, tents and caravans are desirable, but I am not sure whether they would apply to travelling gipsies and others of that type. There should be regulations with regard to such people. It is true they have no votes and, therefore, they do not matter to Deputies, but that is no reason why they should not be considered. They are people who travel from district to district. They are entitled to justice and fair treatment, just the same as other members of the community, and, if any law is made governing their conduct, it should equally apply to holiday makers. I do not want one law for travelling tinkers and another for tourists. The same law should apply to both. Some regulations in this respect are necessary.

People who travel from one district to another can violate the law with more immunity than a person in a fixed residence. Travelling tinkers, though they may cause a lot of annoyance and nuisance, are in the main comparatively honest—at least, as honest as other sections of the community. It is rarely that they are guilty of robbery in relation to property. They may sometimes trespass upon a farmer's land with their horses and other stock, but it is very rarely they steal. We should be as just to those people as to everybody else. They may become a nuisance and it is for that reason they should be subject to regulations. For instance, they may become a nuisance if they remain too long in the one district and their horses and donkeys trespass upon other people's land or damage fences. There is the necessity to ensure that they do not, by the manner in which they live, inflict injustice or cruelty upon their children or others depending upon them.

A point I raised when the Public Health Bill was going through has reference to interments. It is provided in this Bill that a person shall be interred only in a registered or recognised cometery. In most country parishes it is the custom for the parish piest to be interred in the ground of the local chapel, and I think an exception should be made in this respect.

That is covered in the Bill.

Thank you.

The Bill seems to be welcomed generally by all sides of the House. In its general purpose it is non-contentious. It covers a variety of miscellaneous matters, all of which, as Deputy Mulcahy has said, might be discussed on the Committee Stage. I was only anxious that before the House adjourned for the Summer Recess we should at least give formal approval to the principle of the Bill so as to allow Deputies, local authorities and other interests which may be concerned in the measure, an opportunity of considering its provisions and of making suggestions as to amendments if they think such are desirable. I do not think that I need delay the House further. I am sure most Deputies are anxious to get away as early as possible and as the Bill is, as I have said, non-contentious, I do not think it necessary to deal with any of the points raised. I have no doubt they will be raised again on Committee when we can discuss them more fully.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 8th October.
The Dáil adjourned at 4.5 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 8th October, 1947.
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