Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 6 Dec 1951

Vol. 128 No. 4

Undeveloped Areas Bill, 1951—Second Stage (Resumed).

Mr. Cafferky

When I moved the adjournment of the debate I was saying that I appreciated that the people west of the Shannon were not deceived by this supposed Industrial Development Bill. I do not believe myself that it will help to bring any relief whatever to the West of Ireland. The only hope one can derive from its introduction, and the speeches that have been made here during the past few weeks, is that it may help to throw some light on the position as it exists there, and has existed for a period of years. A number of the speeches, whether serious or otherwise, made here over the past few weeks may help to get the Minister to realise his position in regard to the problem which exists in the West of Ireland. That problem is a serious one. If we have to wait for another ten or 20 years before anything is done, then the problem will have solved itself, because there will be nobody there to worry about. Already the population there is becoming depleted. The young people who are able to go have already gone. I am afraid that we are recognising at a very late hour indeed the fact that a problem does exist there. It has been there for a long time. I want to say quite definitely that £2,000,000 is not going to meet the situation. When speaking on the Supplies and Services Bill in the Dáil a few weeks ago, I said that nothing less than £100,000,000 would be sufficient to meet the situation as it ought to be met. The situation is really a desperate one. The people in the West are in a desperate plight. Thousands of homes are closed up and the great bulk of the people have gone away.

They come back at intervals for short periods of a month or five weeks to see the aged folk they have left behind them and to visit the other relatives who reside in their native place. If we think that the establishment of little industries, of the kind mentioned in this House, is going to entice the people of the West of Ireland to remain at home, we are making a big mistake. During my talk on the Supplies and Services Bill, I pointed out that it was essential, if we intended to do anything for the West of Ireland from the point of view of industrial development, we should concentrate on the provision of employment for the menfolk rather than for the womenfolk. We should set about the provision of work which would give long-term employment, long-term security, decent wages and decent conditions. I have full sympathy with the Deputies who dealt in their speeches with the need for drainage, land rehabilitation, land reorganisation and the doing away with the rundale system, etc., etc. However, even if all these things were righted, if we were to drain the land of the West of Ireland in its entirety and if we were to bring the economic holdings there up to a reasonably economic standard, we would, nevertheless, be faced with an unemployment problem there and with a surplus of labour. In the West of Ireland there are usually very large families, ranging from seven, ten to 14 in number. It is obvious to you, a Chinn Chomhairle, and to the Minister that 14 children cannot be accommodated on a small, uneconomic holding and that 13 of the children will have to seek employment elsewhere. Where are we going to provide them with employment?

In what kind of an industry? The Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy Lynch, will be responsible for coordinating the various Departments to which he has referred and will be more or less to an extent responsible for the administration of this Bill. He visited the West of Ireland, and I think he would hardly deny what I have stated here, that £2,000,000 is merely pin-pricking the problem, and that nothing less than £100,000,000 would meet the situation. The State must provide that money. I cannot see any solution for the problem in private enterprise, not that I am opposed to private enterprise as such, but the problem is of such magnitude that private enterprise is not capable of dealing with it. Such towns as Westport, Claremorris and Ballina would probably be prepared to provide capital to the extent of £10,000, £15,000 or £20,000 for the establishment of an industry, but, even on a liberal estimate, that industry would give employment only to 100 men and women. These industries are not at all adequate to absorb the surplus labour there. This is a problem to which we have closed our eyes over the years because we did not wish to tackle it and one which has gathered momentum with the passage of the years.

While I welcome this Bill, I want to assure the House that I have no confidence whatsoever in it. I do not believe for a moment that it will solve the problems of the West or induce the men and women to remain down there. I do not believe that it will provide sufficient employment, with the resultant security, to induce the people to settle down in their native places, marry and rear a family.

I have in mind a few ideas which might help. Like other Deputies I do not believe that we will see the things sponsored in this Bill in operation. I feel that we should try to concentrate on the industries that are to be established in the future which would employ manual labour, and I feel that these industries should be erected in the West of Ireland.

There is talk of building a cement factory. Such a factory would give a reasonable amount of employment and it would employ menfolk rather than womenfolk. If such a factory is going to be built, I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will use his influence with the Department of Industry and Commerce so that we will get the privilege of having it established in one or other of the five counties in Connacht. Naturally, being a Mayo Deputy, I would request the Minister to consider some place in Mayo as a site for the proposed factory. I will not say where in Mayo, but I will say that there is plenty of limestone down there in several places which would be suitable.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach (Donnchadh Ó Briain)

South Mayo, of course.

Mr. Cafferky

If it is established in Mayo I will be very pleased, and I will not mind whether it is in the south of the county or in the north of the county.

As far as I know, we do not manufacture our bicycles. We merely assemble them here. In the West of Ireland the people are comparatively poor, the greater number using the bicycle as their mode of transport. There are very few motor cars, but there are thousands of bicycles. Sometimes there are two bicycles, perhaps three and sometimes four in the one household. I feel that we should have reached the stage now where we would be able, not merely to assemble our own bicycles but to manufacture them as well. An industry such as this would be a great boon to the West of Ireland and would go a long way towards employing men and women. Those are two of the industries which I have in mind.

I am in agreement with Deputy Dillon, although I must say that when he was a member of the Government he overlooked, to my regret, the fact that we should have plants erected for the grinding of limestone. When he started that business we were bringing in limestone from Boyle and from other counties, while we had got an abundance of that raw material in our own county. I say, in fairness to Deputy Dillon, that the scheme was not long in progress and that if he had got a further chance he would have initiated and projected some plants in County Mayo.

I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to bring to the notice of the Department of Industry and Commerce the fact that we have got an abundance of limestone which could be ground into dust and spread on the land. Outside the town of Kiltimagh we have got very suitable clay for the manufacture of pottery. I do not know if the Parliamentary Secretary visited this district, but I would like to say to him that this clay was exported 15 or 20 years ago in considerable quantities to Great Britain. In Ballinamore, outside Kiltimagh, large quantities of this clay are still available, and I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to have it examined. That is a rural area and one in which, I want to impress on the Parliamentary Secretary, there is a high labour content, 99 per cent. of which—married men and single men— migrate to England and elsewhere in an effort to eke out a livelihood. It would help towards a solution of the problem in these uneconomic holdings if this clay were used for the manufacture of pottery or for any other purpose for which it would be suited.

We have other mineral deposits in the West of Ireland which, if exploited, could be used towards the provision of employment and enriching all the country. As I said during the debate on the Supplies and Services Bill, the key to our problem here is the keeping at home of our manpower and our womanpower. That is the key to our economic and financial problems. If we can hold them at home we will go a long way towards solving this problem of economics which we are debating here for the past few weeks and which we seem to be unable to face up to or to deal with. You cannot expect a community or a nation to survive economically or financially if the manpower and womanpower of a nation is depleted and if, after they have been reared, clothed and educated up to the age of 18 or 20 years and when they become most useful, they are employed by some other nation at our expense. We do not begrudge them to the nations they have gone to; they have been hospitably received, but it is quite natural that we prefer to keep them at home.

If this Bill is to be a success we will have to enlarge upon it and the State will have to give its assistance no matter what arguments may be used against State interference. The argument is often used that State interference is detrimental to the individual and to the national wealth. I do not believe that.

I believe that there are times when the State must intervene and this is a case in which State interference is highly desirable and essential. For that reason I would ask the Government to intervene if they are really serious. I do not wish to say that the Tánaiste and the Parliamentary Secretary are not serious but if we are to take the Bill as it stands in the hope that it will provide for the development of industry, then one is inclined to feel that they are not serious and that they are trying to shelve their responsibility for the West of Ireland and push it over on to some board. We had in the past development authorities and other boards and authorities established over the years and they have not got very far. The Tánaiste, I am sure, from visits to the West of Ireland, knows as much as I know myself who have been born, bred and reared there. The Parliamentary Secretary has visited it and from reading and from what he has been told by Deputies of his own Party representing the West of Ireland, he knows that it is completely useless to leave it to individuals in the West of Ireland who are prepared to put a few thousand pounds into it. We will not be able to deal with the situation in that way and we will not be able to remedy the problem when it is too far gone.

I said during my speech on the Supplies and Services Bill that the people in the West of Ireland—I am speaking now for my own county— had lost confidence to a great extent in this House. They felt that we were here just for the sake of being here and that we preached our intentions on the platform but forgot about them when we came into the House. They felt that they were thrown to the wolves and that their survival depended on their slender resources to eke out a bare living.

When a boy leaves school at the age of 14 he looks forward to the day when he will be 18 years of age and when he will have enough money to leave Ireland. He has lost confidence in the nation. That is the position in the West of Ireland at the present moment.

That is not due to bad bringing up, to children not being taught their national school history and not being taught to take pride in the nation and in Irish history. It is due to the fact that for successive generations they have been treated in the wrong manner; they have been thrown to the wolves and they are obliged to fend for themselves. They set off for the City of Dublin with £4 or £5 in their pockets; then they go to Dún Laoghaire in order to take the boat to England; when they land on the other side with 10/- or so in their pockets they must seek a livelihood in Great Britain. That has been going on for hundreds of years; it has continued since the establishment of this State and since the time the Tánaiste took over responsibility in the Government, notwithstanding all that was promised back in 1927 in the early days of the Fianna Fáil Party. The people of the West of Ireland thought that by putting the Taoiseach, Deputy de Valera, back into power they were going to get somewhere. They have now lost all confidence.

If we intend to correct that situation and convince the people down in the West of Ireland that we are really serious, this piece of paper is not going to do it. I would ask the Tánaiste to be quite frank, to take the bull by the horns and give us an honest outline of what the Government intends to do. Nothing that is in this Bill is capable of dealing with the situation in the West of Ireland.

The people there have suffered these conditions for the past 100 years; they have been at the mercy of foreign Governments and foreign exploiters, as they have been at the mercy of such exploiters for the past two or three generations. I must confess that, for my own part, I have no confidence in the ability of the Government to deal with the present situation. In saying that I do not wish for a moment to try to steal any thunder or take away any popularity that may accrue to the Government Party arising out of the introduction of this Bill. I wish that this Bill were a means of solving the problem. I do not agree that it will solve the problem that exists in the West now. If it did solve the problem I would not object if Fianna Fáil could put a Fianna Fáil Deputy in every seat in this House. That would make no difference.

I am a young man who has had migratory experience. I think I am the only Deputy who ever sat in this House who can claim that he had eight or nine years' experience of employment in England. I was obliged to emigrate at a very early age to obtain employment to support myself and to assist those depending on me by the little I could make available out of my earnings.

I want to convey to the Minister that nothing that is contained in this Bill will solve the problem in the West of Ireland. If we have mineral resources we must make an honest effort to exploit them. If we have not got the mineral resources what then are we to do? I would suggest that we should import the raw material and try to manufacture our essential requirements here—importing steel or anything else we are importing at the present moment. We import millions and millions of pounds' worth of goods in this country which could be manufactured if we brought the raw materials in and if we developed a merchant fleet. The Almighty has provided us with fine natural harbours in the West of Ireland—Galway, Ballina, Sligo, Westport and Blacksod. We have the facilities for landing our raw materials and our essential requirements. We have the natural harbours for exporting these goods we manufacture by ship, and by air if necessary. I do not see how it is that some more intense effort is not made with a view to developing these natural resources.

Then there is the fishing industry to be considered. When I was a little boy many years ago, for the whole six weeks of Lent we ate practically nothing but fish and fish was brought round to the doors. You had not even to go into the towns to buy it. Nowadays if you want even a herring, it must be procured from Dublin and brought to the West of Ireland. Yet we have splendid natural harbours along the west coast and we have men who are anxious to fish if proper facilities were made available for them. Our fishing industry could be developed, not only to supply the demands of the home market but to develop our export market, if we went into business on a large scale. I am sure that the Parliamentary Secretary to the Government, as a result of his visit to Achill, knows the situation there. I am sure the Deputies who represent that area—Deputy Ruttledge, Deputy O'Hara and Deputy Brown— with Senators Kilroy and Ruane put the facts very clearly before him. He must know that there is a very desperate situation there. It is too bad that he could not afford to spend a month in the district. It would take him at least that time to learn all the facts, but I can imagine that if one were to engage in a private conversation with him, short as his visit was, he could give an appalling description of the circumstances. Having that knowledge, I am sure he smiles at the idea of providing only £2,000,000 for development. That sum would be scarcely enough to provide for one village; yet expecting it to suffice for half a dozen counties.

This meagre provision is treated as a joke by the people of Ireland. I can imagine country people sitting at their firesides having a skit about all the talk in Dáil Éireann in regard to it because they do look upon it as a huge joke. Let me assure the Minister that these people have a high degree of intelligence. They may not be well read according to his standards but they have travelled a good deal and many of them have worked with some of the biggest industrial undertakings that the world has ever seen. We may talk about our experience but it is completely in the background in comparison with the experience which they have had. They could tell you all about industrial development and reorganisation, far better than any Deputy, and they just look upon this as a huge joke. If the Minister could go to the back door or listen in at the window of one of these country houses and hear the people round the fireside discussing these matters, I am sure he would come back and tell us: "There is no use trying to cod these lads, they know what they are talking about."

When they read reports of the proceedings here in the local papers—the Western People or the Connacht Tribune—or in the daily papers, they just laugh at the opinions expressed by some Deputies here. It is because of that that I ask the Tánaiste to be frank and to say exactly what he intends to do. I should like to put this question to him through the Chair: “Does he really believe that he can solve the problem in the West of Ireland by leaving it to private enterprise?” He has been himself a business man with business abilities of a high order and he has done a lot to promote industrial development, but I can tell him that there is no hope of solving the problem of industrial development in the West by leaving it in the hands of private enterprise.

Mr. Hickey

You are right.

Mr. Cafferky

I am not wholly opposed to private enterprise. I recognise that it is an important factor in the life of the nation, but I say that this is a matter that requires something more than private enterprise can supply. I say it is the duty of the Government to provide the essential capital to solve this problem or else admit failure and be frank about it. Do not try to lead the people round in circles, because an attempt of that kind is doomed to failure.

I mentioned the question of a cement factory when the Tánaiste was not present. I asked him if he is going to establish another cement factory, to give Mayo a chance of having it or, if he does not establish it in Mayo, to establish it in some county in Connaught. I mentioned also that we should now be able to manufacture bicycles from the earliest stages. In the West of Ireland the bicycle is the chief means of transport; it is used more than any other vehicle. The development of our harbours, the promotion of forestry schemes and tomato growing, land reclamation and drainage, the setting up of plants to produce limestone—these and other things will help, but the work must be set in hand at once. We must take the initiative now, and try to stem the tide of emigration to prevent something which we may regret later on. Future generations will regard us as failures if we do not take the necessary steps at the moment.

I remember being stranded in Liverpool during the war on my return from Grimsby, and I went into the central library to pass a few hours. The first book I put my hands on dealt with the mineral resources of Ireland, and I found to my amazement that according to that book, there was an abundance of coal deposits in Mayo. The survey outlined in that book was carried out many years ago, and it dealt with the whole of the country. According to that survey, there was sufficient coal, even under Lough Neagh, to supply a large part of our requirements. I was greatly struck by the information concerning my native county, and I took particular interest in the description of hills and hollows that I knew from infancy in which there were abundant coal deposits. Why not develop these resources? Is it because we have not got the capital. The Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Industry and Commerce have said that industrial development need not be short of capital, that they would make it available. We have always been led to believe that capital was available. Therefore, there is something wrong with the financial system when our resources are not developed or exploited as they should be. It is either due to the fact that the initiative and the desire is not there, or that the capital is not available.

I would ask the Minister to be frank in his reply and to say if there is any hope of dealing with the situation that exists in my county. I would be only too pleased if I could go back there and say that at long last, after 30 years of native Government, we now have a Government that is facing up to its responsibilities, that recognises that there is a serious situation in the West and that they are going to deal with it in a proper manner, in a manner to produce results. We know that every cause has its effect and every effect its cause. The people will not be satisfied with speech-making. If the Government remain satisfied with the collection of a few thousand pounds, in small towns in the West of Ireland, to initiate some small industry such as a toy factory or a sweet factory to give employment to slips of boys and girls, then God help us. I am all with the Government, any Government, that will initiate a scheme to do away with the twin evils of emigration and unemployment. I do not say that we can do this overnight but I say that we should set ourselves now to a five or six year plan. We could review the situation in, say, six years' time in the light of what has happened in the meantime. By the results shall we be judged.

We hear of five-year, six-year and ten-year plans and programmes in Europe. If this Government is serious, I hope the Minister will be able to guarantee to the House that in five years from now he will be able to come back and report considerable progress. I hope he will be able to come back and report a considerable reduction of unemployment in, and emigration from, the areas referred to in this Bill. If he is able to do that, then he will be judged on the outcome of this Bill and the work he put into it. If the opposite is the result, if emigration and unemployment is then as it is at present, then you can only expect a very blunt answer not only from whatever opposition will be in this House at the time but from the people, who have the final say as regards who shall sit on this side of the House and who shall sit on the Government side of the House.

The situation is serious. The Church, the State and everybody who is capable of putting a pen to paper is writing and talking about the situation in the West. This Bill will choke them for two or three years. They will say to themselves: "If we have any decency at all we will give this Bill a chance." For two or three years the pens will be rested and the throats will be eased. We shall hear very little about the trend of emigration or the flight from the land or unemployment in the West. The danger is that, during the time these pens are resting and the throats are easing, the trends of emigration and unemployment will continue to rise and that nothing will be heard from people from whom you would expect to hear with a view to influencing public opinion and bringing the Dáil and the Government of the day back to a sense of their responsibility.

This Bill has two dangers. It has the danger of preventing criticism of unemployment and emigration for two or three years and it has the danger of leading the people astray. I am convinced that that is what it is going to do. I hope that I am as wrong as wrong can be. I hope that this Bill will have the opposite effect to the one which I fear it will have, and I hope that this Bill will do much good. However, I must say that if the Bill will have the opposite effects to those which I fear, then I am the most deceived man that ever rose to speak in this House since it was established.

Mr. Corry

Whilst I welcome this Bill, I wish to complain of what is not in it. I do not know what areas are claimed as undeveloped. However, I claim that along the seaboard from Knockadoon, Ballymacoda, Garryvoe, Ballycotton right into Whitegate is an area as undeveloped as any area appearing in this Bill and has as much claim for development as any of the areas that come under the Bill. Just consider my position in regard to the development of the fisheries in Ballycotton and the protection of the pier there. That pier has been completely wiped out during the past fortnight, due to the neglect of whoever is in charge of the Fisheries Department in this country. Then we talk about undeveloped areas. Have no other areas any claim on us except those mentioned in this Bill?

What about the areas from which young men came and fought and got rid of the British? They find that because they got rid of the British they have been left from 1921 to 1951—30 long years—with a wreck of a town such as Fermoy. Have they no claims on this nation or on this Dáil? I think they have. I have a very strong feeling in regard to this matter. Nobody who has lived in this nation and has taken any part in the fight for this nation ever dreamt in those days that in this year we would still be rearing young men for export. We do not wish to see that happen in any portion of this nation. We want to end the export of our young men and women.

I do not know the position as regards industries along the western seaboard, about which we have heard so much from time to time. After all, we established an industry in the West. We established an industry there that should have gone ahead, an industry the raw material for which could be produced on the land along the western seaboard. I refer to the Tuam beet factory. For the past 10 years we have been puzzling our brains to discover a method of keeping that factory in operation. We have been feeding it from the farms of Wexford and Carlow in order to keep it in existence.

On one famous occasion I was accused by Deputy Dillon of robbing the Galway farmer because I got something like 16 tons of sludge lime. I am glad the Deputy followed my good example and removed 100 tons of that lime this year to his own farm in Ballaghadereen.

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise.

Mr. Corry

That is lime that the farmers along the western seaboard will not use.

Mr. Rooney

He paid for it.

Mr. Corry

Deputy Dillon, who had his grandiose scheme about the ground limestone, had to go to Tuam for the lime which the Galway farmers would not take and use on their land to develop it. We heard a lot about the five acres in Connemara from which Deputy Dillon removed rocks. Is this House aware that at present the Irish Sugar Company has 1,000 acres of cut-away bog in Galway under cultivation for the production of beet? If that land can be proved, as General Costello is proving, to be capable of growing good crops of beet, why is it that the Galway farmer will not grow beet for the Tuam beet factory? These are some points which I should like to hear discussed.

I have no objection to the development of any portion of this nation. However, when we talk of industries, and when industries are established in a particular place and these industries are not subsequently supported by the farmers themselves, I do not know the reason for it. There are some very good farmers in County Galway and in the counties adjoining. However, the farmers there tell me that they can make far more out of sheep than they can make out of growing beet for the factory. That is the type of difficulty you come up against.

When I was speaking in this House a few days ago I referred to certain propositions that I put up a number of years ago—I think about 1941—to the then Minister for Agriculture in connection with farmers with holdings of valuations from £20 down to £5. I suggested in this House at that time that there was an enormous opening for them in respect of the production on their holdings of root seeds, the greater portion of which are still imported into this country and the rest of which are grown here by the larger farmers.

Take the whole position of beet seed, which is all grown at present in County Limerick, around Adare. It is a crop which yields up to £150 an acre gross and gives an enormous amount of employment. The same applies to other root seeds, mangolds, turnips, parsnips, cabbage seed and so on. Out of cabbage seed there is roughly about £500 an acre to growers. These are openings for the small farmer, for the man with a holding of £10 or £15 valuation. I could not get a move on it then. We have seen what has happened since. We have seen the growing of root seeds killed in the last three years by Deputy Dillon.

General Mulcahy

The Minister might get a move on now, if the Deputy would let him in to finish.

Mr. Corry

Anyone listening to Deputy Murphy could not help knowing the tragedy of what happened. As far as finishing is concerned, I saw three Deputies stand up over there when I stood up. If I succeeded in hunting them I think I have done a good job for the Minister. I want included in this Bill the portions of the areas I have suggested, where there is necessity for it. In fairness all round, there is an opening there. Every constituency has its own troubles and every constituency should get a fair crack of the whip.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister, to conclude.

Mr. Lemass

Most of the points raised concerned the details of the Bill and can be more effectively dealt with on the Committee Stage. I propose to leave them until then.

On the general merits of the Bill, I would like to say that the development of manufacturing industries in the West of Ireland is an important contribution to the solution of the social and economic problems of the nation as a whole. If this Bill contributes anything to that result I will be very pleased to have been associated with it. It has been suggested that the Bill was introduced with a political motive. If by that it was meant to convey that there was a hope that it would produce satisfactory results at an election for my Party, then while expressing that hope I must say that I am not placing a great deal of reliance on it. Nobody knows whether this Bill will produce any results, and I am certainly not guaranteeing that it will. If it does, if there is a considerable amount of industrial development in the West, I am certain that members of my Party will refer to it during election campaigns. But the history of all political campaigns everywhere has been that the least of all enduring emotions is gratitude, and that the weakest foundation on which to build political prospects is gratitude. That is as it should be. If the Bill fails, I am certain that Deputies on the benches opposite will not fail to refer to the fact in their election campaigns, and the only possible answer I will be able to make is that I think it was worth while trying. That is the justification for the Bill.

The only other point it is necessary to emphasise at this stage is that the Bill does not purport to be anything other than a scheme for inducing private industrial firms to locate new factories in the area west of the Shannon rather than somewhere else. It is not a comprehensive plan for the solution of the economic and social problems of the West of Ireland. Various projects are in contemplation by different statutory authorities, and perhaps even new Government authorities will be set up to direct others. Bord na Móna has begun operations on the Bangor-Erris bog.

I hope that, as a result of their operations, there may be established there a power station which will provide permanent employment for a large number of people. The Parliamentary Secretary has referred to a grass meal experiment in the same area. Deputy Corry has referred to certain developments which the sugar company are undertaking in Galway with a view to growing beet, not on cutaway bog, but on drained bog. Other State organisations of the same kind, as well as Government Departments, have got various projects which may prove beneficial.

Over and above these activities, it is desirable, if we can get it, to promote industrial development by private enterprise. There has been an argument proceeding for the past couple of days as to whether private enterprise is likely to be interested in these proposals or whether State enterprise would produce better results than private enterprise. That does not affect this Bill, because, having made a decision in favour of industrial development by private enterprise as against State enterprise, what we have to do is to give certain inducements to private enterprise so that we can redress the unbalanced State of the national economy in some degree. We are doing this because we think it is good for the nation as a whole.

I dislike the tone of many speeches made here directed towards telling the people west of the Shannon how miserable they ought to be and how much the State owes them special help of one kind or another. I consider it is good for the nation, as a whole, that we should do something to induce industrial activity in the West of the country as well as in the East. We are doing that not because we feel there is some special obligation to people residing in those counties over and above people residing in other counties. The Government does not accept an obligation to a citizen of Mayo, Galway or Donegal that it has not got to citizens anywhere else. We think it is in the interests of the citizens in the East, as it obviously is in the interest of the citizens in the West, that this present trend towards concentrating industrial activity in Dublin, Cork and the East coast should be arrested, if possible. That is why we are justifying to the Dáil the proposal to make available out of State funds the sum of money mentioned in this Bill to provide inducements to private industrial firms to put new projects into the West.

Everything depends on the extent to which we get a response from private enterprise in that direction. I am not thinking merely of local development committees, of groups of citizens or activities of that kind. I am thinking of people coming into the Department of Industry and Commerce to discuss some idea they have for a new industry, and being told there by officials: "Yes, we think that is a good idea, and if you agree to go west of the Shannon, to Donegal or Kerry, over and above the normal help which the Government could give we can give special help under this Bill." We think that in one case in three, four or five that may be successful in securing a decision to put a new project west of the Shannon which otherwise would be located in Dublin, Cork or some east coast town.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 12th December.

The Dáil adjourned at 4.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 11th December, 1951.