Business will be taken in the following order: Nos. 4, 6, 7 and 8. It is proposed that No. 7 be taken at 1 o'clock. If the discussion on No. 7 should proceed beyond 5 o'clock, it is proposed to adjourn when it concludes and not take No. 8.
Order of Business.
Does the Minister say that we are to adjourn at 5 o'clock in any event?
No. It is desired to finish the Committee Stage of the Finance Bill.
The Committee Stage only?
Yes.
On the Order of Business. Last night your attention, Sir, was drawn to a statement of a very slanderous nature which was made during the course of the debate on the Finance Bill by the Minister for Finance. I should like to know what redress the Labour Party are to have in regard to that malicious statement which was untrue and completely false as was demonstrated last night.
If the Deputy wishes to put down a motion my office will facilitate him in every way in regard to the terms of the motion.
Surely it is in accordance with the rules of order that the Minister should be called upon to withdraw a statement which has been proved to be untrue.
The incident so far as I know occurred some days back.
It occurred last night.
Surely anything with regard to Parties as distinct from individuals is entirely a matter for the electors.
I have told Deputy Dunne that, if he wishes to put down a motion, my office will facilitate him as far as possible as to the terms of the motion.
May I say that we invite Deputy Dunne to put down a motion?
Because you know it will never be discussed; you will never give the time for its discussion.
May I submit that it has always been the practice in this House when a Deputy states that a statement made by another Deputy is incorrect that the Deputy making the incorrect statement has been required to accept the denial? We have stated absolutely and categorically that the statement made by the Minister for Finance was untrue, and the customary practice has been for a decent-minded Minister or Deputy to withdraw his allegation in the face of that denial. My position is this: the Minister should either prove his statement—and we have offered him opportunities to prove it—or he should withdraw it. That is the simple, honest position which any fair-minded person ought to face up to.
The position is that, if a charge is made against any individual Deputy by any other Deputy in this House and the charge is denied, the Deputy making the charge is expected to withdraw it and is asked to withdraw it. But this is a charge against a Party and must be regarded as a political charge.
Surely political decency requires the application to a Party of the same principles which apply with reference to charges made against a Deputy.
Will we all start off on that basis now?
You would want to remove the Minister for Finance first.
May I make the submission that there is an obvious duty on the Minister for Finance to withdraw the slanderous statement he made? If he will not do it, and we all know the texture of the Minister for Finance, at least the Taoiseach ought to withdraw it on behalf of the Government.
There are political charges and personal charges. A personal charge is a charge made against a particular Deputy. As to political charges, my staff and myself are always available to anybody in respect to the terms of motions.
I should like to ask the Tánaiste, who invites us to put down a motion, if he will assure us that we will get Government time for its discussion?
There is no question before the House at the moment.
The option which was left to me last night was to withdraw a charge I know to be true or to make another statement outside the House obviously implicating Deputy Norton in person in the matter. The Deputy quite obviously wants to start another gold-digging action.
That is a dignified remark.
Do I take it that if the Finance Bill is not finished at 5 o'clock the House will continue?
Yes, to conclude the Committee Stage of the Finance Bill only.
Do we take it then, although no evidence whatever has been produced by the Minister to support the slanderous charges which he made, that the Taoiseach will remain silent and allow these charges to be made without a single word of comment from him?
The truth is that I do not know what it is all about.
The Taoiseach is behind a wall of glass.
I have not the slightest idea of its merits or otherwise. I have not heard the debate or read a single thing about it. I know nothing about the matter before the House.
You know how dirty the Fianna Fáil Party can be.
However, I infer from some statements made to-day that there were some charges made about Parties. I have listened while in this seat for a number of years to unfounded charges made against our own Party which were denied both inside and outside the House.
Is the Taoiseach ready——
The matter is closed.
(Interruptions.)
Did the Taoiseach read Miss Morris's letter?
Will the Taoiseach stand over the slander?
I do not know what it is.
(Interruptions.)