asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will state (a) whether he is aware of the public concern at the further increase in the prices of bread and flour; (b) by whom the increases granted were sought and when; and (c) whether the matter was referred to the Prices Advisory Body before the increases were authorised; and, if so, what recommendation was made by that body and if the matter was not referred to the Prices Advisory Body for examination why this course was not followed in a matter of such vital importance to the community.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Flour and Bread Price Increases.
I am aware that the general public are concerned at the further increases in the prices of bread and flour, but I believe that the public appreciate that increases in bread production costs consequent on higher wages must be met by higher prices. The Labour Court, on 21st August, 1952, recommended certain increases in the wages of bakery operatives and on the 29th of the same month application was made by the bakery industry for such relief, by way of either adjustments in flour or in bread prices, as would enable the industry to implement the recommendation of the Labour Court. It was decided to permit the industry to pay the higher wages recommended by the Labour Court by adjusting bread prices. In the case of bread or flour it is a simple matter to calculate the effect of the wage increases on production costs and an investigation of the effect by the Prices Advisory Body was not considered to be necessary. I would, however, remind the Deputy that it is within the powers and functions of the Prices Advisory Body to inquire into the prices of any commodity at any time on their own initiative.
Does the Minister not consider it advisable in the case of a staple commodity such as bread and its ally, flour, that the Prices Advisory Body should have had this application for an increase sifted in public, so that those who are interested in maintaining price levels of flour and bread should have an opportunity of putting their point of view to the Prices Body and allowing the matter to be decided by a body which has some competence for dealing in costings?
May I remind the Deputy that twice during the period when he was a member of the Government increases in wages in the bakery trade were recommended by the Labour Court and twice the price of bread was adjusted upwards accordingly? There is no problem in relating the effect of increased wages to bread production costs. The condition of the industry was very thoroughly investigated by the Lavery Committee only a short time ago and the report of the committee is available.
That is precisely the case the insurance companies made for their 25 per cent. increase in insurance charges. Now the Prices Tribunal has found out that they were charging twice too much. Why, when the Prices Advisory Body was sitting, were they not given an opportunity of hearing whatever case was to be made for an increase in the price of bread? If the Minister takes the view that the thing was simple, that it could have been easily decided, that was a stronger reason for bringing it before the body so that the whole thing would be publicly ventilated and everyone would be given an opportunity of bringing his point of view to bear on consideration of the problem.
There is no question of denying the Prices Advisory Body an opportunity of investigating this matter. They can do so on their own initiative if they think it desirable and it is not necessary for me to ask them.
Is the Minister aware that the price of bread was increased in the light of the wages being paid, to 8/11 per dozen loaves wholesale, while, outside the City of Dublin, in the rest of Ireland to-day the following prices are being charged per dozen loaves: 8/9, 8/6, 8/3 and 7/9? Now, if it is possible for a rural baker to accept 7/9 per dozen loaves and pay the increased charges, is not there something queer about Dublin bakers— whose output is ten, 15 or 20 times as great—being allowed to charge 8/11 and 8/9?
I am aware that there are parts of the country where the maximum prices for bread and flour are not being charged. That may be an argument for the decontrol of bread and flour: it is not an argument against permitting adjustment of the maximum price fixed when it is obvious that the costs have increased.
There is not the least use in providing for competition to operate in Dublin, where the bread trade is controlled by a closed ring, into which nobody may poke his nose, as between miller and baker. They have the public by the throat and no one can control them except a statutory body. If you restore competition in Dublin, they can raise the price of bread to 9/- and no one can do anything about it. The only way is to declare a fixed price and control the situation so long as you have the ring there.
Is not the case for decontrolling the price to intensify competition, but the effect will be to divert trade to certain large bakeries and close small ones; and that is a result to which we would have to give careful consideration?
You cannot compete in Dublin.
Is it not a fact that the increase in price has taken place in Limerick while there has been no increase in wages? What is the justification for the increase by the Limerick master bakers when no increase has taken place in wages?
Does the Deputy mean that the increase recommended by the Labour Court have not been paid?
They are not receiving any increases. The prices which are being charged in Dublin are being charged in Limerick and Cork, where the people have got no increase in wages.
I will have to inquire into that.
Would the Minister ask the Prices Advisory Body to investigate this matter?
If the Prices Advisory Body think it necessary, they are free to do so. I do not have to ask them and do not feel it necessary to ask them.
A substantial number of members of this Parliament would be anxious to see the Prices Advisory Body examine this matter.
As far as I am concerned, the only question that arises for me is one of policy— whether the bakers should be permitted to pay the increased wages by an adjustment in the price of bread or an adjustment in the price of flour. As a matter of policy, it was decided to adjust the price of bread to enable them to pay the increased wages.
Can the Minister indicate the total amount of the wage increases granted — in a year?
The Deputy has a question down on that for to-morrow and probably he will be able to restrain his patience until then.