Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 17 Jun 1953

Vol. 139 No. 10

New Annex to Trade Agreement with Britain.

Minister for Agriculture (Mr. Walsh)

In my speech on the Estimate last night, I indicated that I hoped to make a statement to-day on our tradingrelations with Britain. I am now in a position to do so as an agreement on future trade was formally concluded in London this morning, when Notes were exchanged between our Ambassador and the British Minister of Food, on behalf of the Irish and British Governments, setting out the terms of a new annex to govern the trade between the two countries in a number of agricultural commodities, in substitution for the existing annex.

The principal features of the new annex are as follows:—

1. The British Government undertake to accept all the fat stock and carcase meat offered by this country for export to Britain.

2. The British Government undertake that the difference between the prices paid by them for British-bred fat cattle and those paid for cattle bred in Ireland and fattened for a minimum of two months in Britain shall not exceed 4/6 per live cwt. (The differential is at present 5/- per live cwt.).

3. The prices paid for fat cattle exported from Ireland for immediate slaughter will be equivalent to those paid for cattle bred in Ireland and fattened for a minimum of two months in Britain.

4. Exports of live cattle and carcase beef to countries other than Britain shall not exceed 10 per cent. of the total Irish exports of live cattle and carcase beef. This provision will not, however, apply to cows or bulls or the carcases thereof, and there will, therefore, be no limitation on the export of these to countries other than Britain. Hitherto, the limitation has applied to all exports of live cattle.

5. The relationship at present existing between the prices paid for fat sheep and fat lambs imported for slaughter from Ireland and those paid for fat sheep and fat lambs bred in Britain will be maintained. (The existing prices for fat sheep and fat lambs from Ireland are only slightly below the prices for British bred animals.)

6. The prices for dead meat (beef, mutton and lamb) will be arranged onthe basis of equivalence with live-stock prices.

7. The new annex provides for discussions between the two Governments as to the arrangements in regard to exports of eggs after 31st December, 1953, for such time as eggs continue to be imported into Britain on Government account.

8. The British Government will purchase such quantities of butter as may be offered for export from Ireland subject to agreement on prices, as soon as the possibility of export arises.

The trade in canned meat and poultry has been removed from Government control in Britain. These products may, therefore, be exported freely to Britain, and the new annex does not contain any provisions in relation to them.

The new annex is expressed to operate for three years as from 29th June, 1953, with provision for extension for a further period by mutual agreement. If any of the products covered by the new annex is returned to private trade, the provisions of the annex will no longer apply to such product but the British Government will give prior notice to the Government of Ireland so that the two Governments may consider together the arrangements under which the trade in that product will be continued.

The Notes now exchanged and the new annex have been laid on the Table of the House.

I should now like to make a few comments on the new arrangements which I have just summarised.

Mr. Dillon

They are not calculated to astonish the natives.

Mr. Walsh

The annex which has now been concluded after considerable negotiation constitutes a significant advance in the arrangements governing the export of our most important agricultural commodities to Britain. The new document is particularly significant in relation to the trade between the two countries in live stock and meat. The British Government has undertaken to purchase all the fatcattle, sheep and lambs and all the carcase meat that we are in a position to supply to them.

Mr. Dillon

Thank God the British market has not gone for ever.

Mr. Walsh

Under the 1948 agreement there was provision for the restriction of our exports of carcase beef to 200 tons per week, with an overriding annual limit of 4,000 tons. We have a separate agreement with them on pigs, pork and bacon. I need not stress the importance to the farming community or to the economy of the country as a whole of the assured market thus provided for all the live stock and meat we can produce and in which we are assured prices directly related to the prices paid to British farmers for their produce.

In particular I wish to stress the benefits to the farming community of the undertaking by Britain that the difference between the prices paid for British-bred cattle and those paid for Irish-bred cattle fattened in Britain will not exceed 4/6 per live cwt. Up to now the position was that the difference was 5/- per live cwt. and Britain was entitled, if she so desired, under the terms of the 1948 annex to widen that differential, with serious consequences for our cattle industry. At the time this 5/- provision was agreed in 1948 the level of cattle prices generally was considerably below the present level and, as a percentage of the price obtainable, 5/- per live cwt. represented a much greater difference than the present 4/6. The new document firmly links the prices to be paid for fat cattle to the prices payable for cattle bred in Ireland and fattened in Britain on their purchase by the Ministry of Food, and this ensures that the prices payable for fat cattle will directly correspond with the prices payable for Irish store cattle fattened in Britain on the one hand and, therefore, with the prices obtainable by the British producer for British fat animals.

Another very important feature of the new agreement is the recognition given to, and the assured market providedfor, our greatly expanded trade in dressed beef, mutton and carcase lamb. The British Government, in this agreement, has subscribed to the general objective of developing the trade between the two countries, not only in live stock but also in meat, and has undertaken to purchase all the carcase meat which we can send them. At the same time, the provision in the previous agreement that at least 75 per cent. of the total number of cattle exported to Britain should be store cattle has been eliminated.

Dr. Ryan

In spite of Deputy Dillon's statement.

Mr. Walsh

Of course, there will be no limit on the number of store cattle we are sending out.

Mr. Hickey

Can we not listen to the terms of this agreement without all the talk there is here?

Mr. Dillon

These provisions are excellent and reproduce exactly the existing situation.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister for Agriculture.

Mr. Walsh

The prices to be paid for carcase meat will be calculated on the basis of equivalence with the prices payable for fat stock exported to Britain for immediate slaughter. The arrangements now made will, I am satisfied, provide for the maintenance and development of the carcase meat industry in this country which plays an important part in the agricultural economy.

On our side we have undertaken to limit to 10 per cent. of total exports the quantity of cattle and carcase beef to be sent to countries other than Britain. This undertaking, however, although it extends this limitation provision to carcase beef as well as live cattle, does not apply to cows or bulls or carcase meat thereof. The earlier limitation provision applied to live cattle only, but included cows and bulls. On this question I should like to point out that one of our mostvaluable trades with countries other than Britain is the export of manufacturing beef to the United States, and this trade is entirely based on exports of cow and bull meat. The type of meat generally in demand on the Continent is of a lean type for which cows or bulls are found most suitable. The trade in live cattle to the Continent also to a considerable degree consists of cows or bulls, large numbers of which are taken for the manufacture of foot and mouth vaccine. I am satisfied that the restriction need not and will not operate to prevent full exploitation of market openings outside Britain.

In the last two years and more recently in particular, the British Government have moved towards the removal of price and distribution controls in Britain on a number of agricultural commodities and feeding stuffs and have proceeded to terminate the bulk purchase of certain of these. Since March price control and rationing of eggs in Britain has ceased but imports are still being centrally handled pending the working out of final arrangements for the import trade. The current arrangements with Britain about eggs operate until the 31st December, 1953, and the new annex provides that the two sides will meet before that date to settle the arrangements to obtain after the 1st January, 1954. In the event of Britain deciding to terminate the bulk purchase of other commodities, she will consult us beforehand as to the arrangements under which trade will be continued in such commodities.

With these satisfactory arrangements made for our agricultural exports, I can confidently ask farmers to increase production on the basis of more tillage, more live stock and better grass.

Dr. Ryan

Pauperise the farmers!

Mr. Sweetman

Thank God the British market is gone! The Taoiseach must be feeling very pleased.

An Ceann Comhairle

Committee Stage of the Health Bill.

Mr. Hickey

Are we not entitled to ask any questions?

An Ceann Comhairle

Yes, I will allow questions.

Mr. Hickey

I raised it before and I am asking it again. In this agreement I see where we are not allowed to export more than 10 per cent. of live cattle outside the United King dom. Is not that so? All we can export to foreign markets outside the United Kingdom is 10 per cent.

Mr. Walsh

You can send out bulls and cows. That restriction has been there all the time. It was made by your Government.

Mr. Cosgrave

And was criticised by Fianna Fáil.

Mr. Lemass

It is amended and much better now.

Mr. Dillon

Let us not forget the bulls and cows.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Hickey is asking a question.

Mr. Hickey

I would like both sides of the House to calmly consider the terms of this agreement without shouting across at each other.

An Ceann Comhairle

The terms are not being discussed now. The Deputy may ask a question which does not lead to a debate.

Mr. Hickey

Does the 10 per cent. limitation still remain?

Mr. Walsh

No.

Mr. Lemass

The old 10 per cent. arrangement is gone.

Mr. Cosgrave

No, it is still there but it is modified. Clearly it includes carcase beef now.

Mr. Sweetman

It is worse.

Dr. Ryan

How could it be worse?

Mr. Cosgrave

When you agree among yourselves on what it means you can tell the House.

Mr. Lemass

I suggest that as the debate on agriculture is going to proceed to-day and to-morrow, Deputiesmight wait until then to consider what questions they will ask.

Mr. Morrissey

Of course, if it was properly done we would have the Estimate to-day. Instead we had it last night—for a purpose.

An Ceann Comhairle

I do not wish to curtail questions as long as they do not lead to a debate.

Mr. Dillon

We are entitled to ask questions.

An Ceann Comhairle

So long as they are limited.

Mr. Hickey

There is another question I want to ask. Will the Minister explain why we cannot go ahead now with the agriculture Estimate?

Mr. Lemass

It will be taken later.

Mr. Morrissey

But why not now?

Mr. Blowick

The agriculture Vote is being shoved in at tea-time to fill a gap.

Mr. Dillon

In page 1, paragraph (4),——

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot allow questions of that particular type. All I can allow are questions to elucidate a point.

Mr. Dillon

Let me put it this way. Does not paragraph (4), page 1, of the Minister's statement expressly state: "Exports of live cattle and carcase beef to countries other than Britain shall not exceed 10 per cent. of the total Irish exports of live cattle and carcase beef"? I know that does not mean a damn. Is not that correct, and is it not a very satisfactory arrangement?

Mr. Walsh

It is not correct because you have omitted to include bulls and cows.

Mr. Dillon

I have tried to make you not look absurd. You are not going to build a great industry in this country on bulls and cows.

Mr. Lemass

It would be very hard to build it on anything but bulls and cows.

Mr. Hickey

I am asking a further question. Does the Minister's statement mean that we can only export second-class cattle to countries other than Britain?

An Ceann Comhairle

That type of question is really conducting a debate by way of question and answer and I cannot allow it.

Mr. Morrissey

May I put a question? This is a very serious matter and I think it ought to be treated seriously. That is agreed.

Mr. Aiken

You should have told that to Deputy Dillon.

Mr. Morrissey

I look upon it as a matter of the greatest importance, a matter of tremendous importance, to the people of the country. Might I suggest to the Taoiseach that he should now agree that the debate on the Estimate for Agriculture will continue and that the debate on the Health Bill be adjourned until to-morrow?

Mr. Lemass

The Order of Business for to-day cannot now be changed. There will be ample time to discuss this agreement later on the Estimate for Agriculture.

Mr. Morrissey

May I put it to the Tánaiste that it is a matter of the greatest importance to every person in the country? May I suggest that the people of the country would have much more interest in it than in the Health Bill in its present stage?

Mr. Lemass

I suggest that Deputies should study the agreement before they proceed to talk about it. They will have the rest of the afternoon to study it and then they can talk about it to-morrow. It will be just as important to-morrow as it is to-day.

Mr. Morrissey

It will be quite easy to talk about it because we all know about the 1948 agreement.

General Mulcahy

Might I ask what the Tánaiste means by saying that it can be discussed to-morrow?

Mr. Lemass

It can be discussed in the course of the debate on the Estimate for Agriculture. If Deputies willfacilitate us in getting through the different stages of the Health Bill to-day, it will mean that more time can be allocated for the discussion of this matter to-morrow.

General Mulcahy

Will the Tánaiste say, when he refers to the fact that it can be discussed to-morrow, how many hours the Government are going to allow for this discussion to-morrow?

Mr. Lemass

We cannot decide tomorrow's business until we see what progress we are going to make to-day on the Committee Stage of the Health Bill.

General Mulcahy

Will the Tánaiste explain why the Minister is given no time to explain to any section of the Dáil what are the implications of this matter?

Dr. Ryan

Is it right that a Deputy should go back to the Vikings on the Health Bill? He tried to kill time by going back to the Vikings.

Mr. Morrissey

You have succeeded in stifling discussion on the agreement anyhow.

Mr. Dillon

We may have something to say about it later this afternoon.