Before we take the Army Pensions Bill, would the Minister indicate whether it is intended to take the Army Pensions Order or to leave it until the next session?
Army Pensions Bill, 1953—Report and Fifth Stages.
The Army pensions scheme? I would like to get it some time this week.
I do not think it would be possible to do that as certain parts of it will be controversial.
You do not think it will be possible to get it through?
I do not think so, Of course, the Minister will not be held up on this particular legislation. On the Report Stage, is it necessary for the Minister to recommit?
Yes, if there were charges.
Financial charges.
I presume amendment No. 2 is ruled out of order.
Yes. Amendment No. 2 is out of order.
I move amendment No. a1:—
In page 6, Section 4, at the end of sub-section (1) to add the following new paragraph:—
(d) grant to such one permanently invalided brother of such deceased person, as the Minister may direct, an annual allowance of £125, provided such brother—
(i) was dependent on such deceased person at the date of his death, or
(ii) should, in the opinion of the Minister for Finance, be treated, having regard to all the circumstances of the case, as a dependent of such deceased person."
The purpose of this amendment is to enable a permanently invalided brother of a deceased person to receive an allowance of £125 a year provided he was dependent on the deceased person at the date of his death or should in all the circumstances be regarded as having been so dependent.
Amendment agreed to.
I move amendment No. 1:—
In page 7, to delete Section 9 (3), lines 50 to 54, and to substitute in lieu thereof the following sub-section:—
(3) The Minister may, on the ground that new evidence has become available subsequent to the issue of the certificate, at any time request the board to review the certificate, and thereupon the board shall review the certificate and may, after such review, either, as they think proper, confirm or vary it.
The purpose of this amendment is to remove the words "evidence not available".
This is really inserted for clarification?
The question was raised the other day. I considered itand I felt this was a better way of dealing with the matter. It gave a fairer opportunity to the individual.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendment No. 2 not moved.
I move amendment No. 3:—
In page 13, Section 27 (1) in the new Part II of the Seventh Schedule to the Act of 1927 set out therein, to delete "£30" and to substitute in lieu thereof "£60".
I think the Minister has gone a long way to meet us in this amendment.
Amendment agreed to.
I move amendment No. 4:—
In page 22, before Section 51, to insert the following new section:—
Sub-section (3) of Section 20 of the Act of 1932 is hereby amended by the deletion of "(except sub-section (4) thereof)".
What is the exact significance of this?
This arises from a request made in the House to have certain pensioners recompensed for the period they would be in hospital.
That is Deputy Peadar Cowan's request with regard to people who come up for treatment to St. Bricin's. They will be paid the full pension rate for the period.
It will not apply to new applicants.
I think the Minister is to be complimented on doing that. It is something which was very badly needed and which will be very much appreciated.
We on this side pay the Minister the compliment of giving him his amendment unanimously.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendments reported and agreed to.
Question—"That the Bill be received for final consideration"—put and agreed to.
Question proposed : "That the Bill do now pass."
We have no desire at this stage to delay the passage of this Bill. It can be fairly said that with the co-operation of the House and the cooperation of the Minister it has emerged from Committee a well improved measure from the time of its initiation in the House. I feel that it is right that we should have a certain sense of pride in the unanimity and the general approach of the House on this measure. I have no hesitation in saying: "Well done" to the Minister for the various improvements he has been able to effect. As I have said before on Bills of this nature, it is only right and proper that we should try to co-operate with the Minister to get this type of legislation through the House as expeditiously as possible so that we will not in any way delay the benefits that may flow to a needy section of the community. We can all say, as we will inevitably, that this is not the best Bill, but at least let us be honest and say it is a very substantial instalment going towards meeting some of the long outstanding claims. I feel that this Government with a Minister who has the sympathetic view towards this problem which the present occupant of that office has, had to be limited in the scope of this Bill. He has done very well within the walls of what he was able to wrest from the Department of Finance, and the regret I have is that somebody who has in his own personal view such a wealth of sympathy towards this problem was forced into that position at the finish. As the Minister himself said in the course of the debate, this is not likely to be the last Bill of the kind. Most probably either the Minister or whoever may succeed him may be forced into bringing in other instalments.
I think that generally speaking there will be a good deal of welcome in particular for the last amendment which the Minister has moved which was initially advocated on the Committee Stage by Deputy Captain Cowan.People who have to undergo treatment in St. Bricin's and have to spend that period away from their employment or from their home will appreciate this Act. I can say honestly on the Final Stage of this Bill that I regret myself very considerably that we have to have a succession of these measures. I would like to see, as was suggested by both myself and, I think, Deputy Cowan during the course of this debate, some kind of committee sitting down in the unanimity of spirit that exists and the will to do the best we can for all these people, particularly a committee charged with the job of finding a final settlement for these people, because I do not like to feel that any organisation of people who have served this country in the way that the people did in that particular period should be forced to come constantly after politicians of all descriptions and all persuasions to try to find an airing for their grievances. It has not been possible to do it in this Act, but I think there is a tremendous number of people who are going to be immensely grateful for this instalment. My earnest hope is that as this Bill goes on to the Statute Book the way is cleared to obviate and finally settle outstanding differences so that before such time as they may be called from this land to their new home we may be able to deal with any problems that still remain unsettled where that particular generation that I like to style the generation of achievement is concerned.
I have a case where an Old I.R.A. man is in hospital and I have a letter in my possession which states that £75 is due for his hospital treatment. May I take it that under this Bill it will not be charged against him?
That would not be affected by this Bill.
Will he have to pay the £75 that the institution is demanding from him?
What we are doing here arises from the proposal that where an individual is called up for hospital treatment by the authoritiesin respect of his pensionable disability, and where he is thus possibly called away from his employment, he should be granted 100 per cent. pension while he is in the hospital for the period of that treatment, but it does not affect the type of case to which Deputy Hickey has referred.
That is in the past?
It does not affect applicants for pensions. Applicants coming along for the first time are not affected by the amendment at all.
This is an Old I.R.A. man.
Even so, if he is not a disabled pensioner, he is not affected.
I think it is only right that in a Bill such as this where the Minister has met the House in the way he has met it we should avail of the Final Stage to pay a well-deserved tribute to the Minister, even on the amendments he has introduced to-day which have been accepted by the Dáil. They were amendments of importance suggested to him on the last stage of the Bill and the Minister, in the course of the few days which he had at his disposal, accepted those amendments. I think that everyone can say that as far as this Bill is concerned it is a Bill that has the unanimous support of Dáil Eireann and that as far as the recipients are concerned they should realise that what has been passed into law now has been passed unanimously by Dáil Éireann at the instance of the Minister for Defence.
During the Second Stage and the Committee Stage I mentioned, as did Deputy Collins and other Deputies, the matter of the suggested committee to look into these Army Pensions Acts. As the Minister knows and as the House knows, they are very difficult and complicated and there are, undoubtedly, within the Dáil Deputies who have excellent knowledge of these Bills and knowledge of the difficulties and obstacles that are in the way, perhaps, of applicants. They areaware also of certain anomalies that have grown up in the legislation itself. I think the Minister would be happy to have the assistance of a committee of Deputies who would examine all this Army pensions legislation and would make recommendations to him to remove the anomalies that have been mentioned from time to time during the course of the debates. That committee could suggest codification and I think in the long run it would be a great help to the Minister as well as to the people who should benefit under the Acts. I hope that when the Dáil reassembles after the recess, early steps will be taken by the Minister to get such a committee going.
I want to say a couple of words on behalf of a special section. Those are the widows and the children of deceased officers of the Defence Forces who are entitled because of the Defence Forces legislation to pensions because of the lenght of service of their husbands in the Defence Forces. There is not a very large number of those widows, but the surprising thing about them is that nearly every family and every widow has a pension almost peculiar to herself or to her own family. This is another one of those cases in which anomalies have grown up because of ranks and because of date of death and a number of matters of that kind. Those persons concerned have come together to examine their own position and they are now in a position to make certain recommendations to the Minister. The Minister has very kindly indicated that he is willing and anxious to meet them at any time.
All this is irrelevant, of course.
I know that, perhaps, it is not within the scope of what we are now discussing.
It is not in this Bill at all.
We will be taking the Money Resolution on that tomorrow.
Yes, but the Minister has been so sympathetic to the House in regard to these matters that I just want to say to the Minister that I sincerely hope that his meeting with the persons concerned will result in steps being taken by him to remove the grievances which they undoubtedly have. Having said that with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I want to repeat what I have already said, that I join with the other Deputies in the House in congratulating the Minister on the excellent Bill he has produced. It is a Bill of which we are all proud.
On my side, I want to thank the House for the manner in which, right from the beginning, they have approached the examination of this Bill. I must certainly admit that the discussions which took place and the suggestions which were made, in the main, won my sympathy. I could see where, perhaps, it was a question of three, four or five heads being better than one or two. By reason of the suggestions made, and the examinations which I had carried out following these suggestions, it was possible to produce the amendments. I must say, however, in fairness to the Minister for Finance, that when I approached him — and I approached him not all at once: I had to approach him on two or, perhaps, three occasions and more or less harried a man who was himself as full of business as one could be and who was, to some extent, rather worried about his own difficulties—he met me in the fairest possible manner. It is only right to say that the amendments were produced as a result of discussion with him and agreement by him to the recommendations which I made.
I thank the House again for the manner in which they approached this whole problem. I feel certain that it will act as an example of feeling towards the people who will benefit as a result of the Bill and that the Seanad, when I bring the Bill before them, will deal with it in the same expeditious manner in which this House has dealt with it. If that ispossible, I can see a large number of people benefiting almost immediately from the provisions of the Bill. I must say that, for myself, I think that the most deserving type of persons who will benefit are the widows, who have been very hard hit, the disabled men and the people who have been awarded special allowances. These are the people who, in my opinion, at the present moment need help most and they will get it through this Bill. The House has done everything possible to expedite the securing of whatever awards will be available to these people. On their behalf, as well as on my own behalf and on behalf of the Government, I want to thank the House for the manner in which they received this measure.
Question put and agreed to.
This is a Money Bill within the meaning of Article 22 of the Constitution. The Seanad will be notified accordingly.