It is proposed to take business as on Order Paper, Nos. 1, 9 (four Supplementary Estimates) and 5. It is proposed that public business be not interrupted to take Private Deputies' business.
Order of Business.
Am I in order now, Sir? I asked the Taoiseach yesterday a question of which I gave private notice yesterday at noon: (1) on what date it is proposed to dissolve the Dáil and (2) what business the Government considered it necessary in the national interest to put through before the dissolution.
The answer to the first question is, as I indicated in the statement last night, Saturday, 24th April.
What statement— the statement to newspapers or to Parliament?
I was told that a private question was to be asked, in view of the fact that I had not issued a statement which had been expected.
That is right.
And you had not.
I had not at that time issued a statement, but it was quite clear that the Opposition were expecting a statement.
And the country.
The country got the statement and the Opposition got it, too. In answer to the question asked of me: (1) it is my intention to advise the President that the Dáil be dissolved on Saturday, 24th April. That will mean, in the ordinary way, that the last day for receiving nominations will be 4th May, and my colleague the Minister for Local Government will make an Order to have polling on May 18th. With regard to the second question which I have been asked, I think that would require some conversations or communication between the Whips. It is in the interest of the country that, as far as possible, there should be agreement.
In view of the fact that it was generally assumed by the community that the statement of last Thursday was intended to indicate that the House would be dissolved when the Vote on Account was put through, would the Taoiseach now tell the country what is responsible for the Government change of attitude and the new decision, for a Government which has no mandate from the people, to seek to put through a Budget which this country does not want from this Government any more than it wants the Government itself?
On a point of order. While the Deputy is entitled to ask a question, I doubt if he is entitled to make an offensive speech.
It is a truthful statement.
No offensive remark is allowed to be made. I do not know what offensive remark the Tánaiste is referring to.
In this matter, the question of offensiveness is miles from my thoughts. I am consumed with sympathy with the Taoiseach in the position in which he finds himself to-day.
Do we have to listen to this?
I want to get an opportunity of expressing that. Could I ask the Taoiseach whether his decision altering last Thursday's decision is for the purpose of enabling the Government to introduce a Budget in April in the hope that they can manage disreputably to buy votes in the forthcoming election?
Mr. Walsh
That is what you think.
The community did not understand what the Deputy suggests as the meaning of my statement.
Of course they did.
"Of course they did." The Deputy is setting himself up as an oracle.
That is not true but every newspaper man in Dublin cannot be wrong.
The Deputy was wildly jubilant on a previous occasion. You were very quiet after the Galway election.
We were very jubilant.
The Deputies who tried to interpret public opinion then may be just as wrong in their interpretation now.
All we have ever asked is that public opinion would get the chance of expressing itself.
You might not like your answer.
Try it to-morrow and we will abide by the answer, which is more than you can say.
We will all, I hope, abide by the answer. The point is——
Mr. O'Higgins
That you are afraid to face the election.
The point is, when is it in the public interest that the Dáil should be dissolved? As I said in a statement last night, I gave very careful consideration to that question and I came to the conclusion that whilst you could have a rushed election bringing you almost up to Holy Week with the campaign, it could only be a rushed election and would save very little time. I thought that in all the circumstances the right thing in the public interest to do was to have the Budget so that the Minister for Finance would be able not merely to present the Book of Estimates, which has been published, but also to indicate the methods by which be expected that the revenues necessary to meet that expenditure would be secured. To bring in a Budget he would require to have the completed year's accounts before him and properly examined. As this election is going to be fought, I understand, on the question of State finances, it is obviously right and proper that the community, the electorate, should have before them when they are coming to pass judgment all the relevant facts of the State finances and, under the present time-table that I have indicated, that will be possible.
It is also a fact that if the elections were rushed they would be held a very short time, not more than a week I think, before the new register would come into operation. Again, there were further considerations. Apart from what would be said about having a needlessly rushed election, as long as we have a majority in the Dáil, we have got the mandate. Representative democracy just means that.
How did you get it?
We got it by the votes of the people and by the votes of the elected representatives of the people.
Bargaining.
The next point is that at this time you would be having the election in the height of farming operations.
(Interruptions.)
It has always been a consideration.
Mr. O'Higgins
You cannot speak for them.
You could not even get a chairman when you went up for a farming area.
It has always been a consideration because the rural workers on both sides are interested in farming operations at particular seasons. These and other considerations were in my mind when I decided and I am perfectly certain that every thinking person in the country who wants to arrive at an informed judgment of the situation will be glad of the decision.
Arising out of the Taoiseach's statement, might I ask the Taoiseach if he does not consider, in view of the election atmosphere that is bound to exist from now until the general election is held, that it will be very difficult to have any kind of reasoned discussion on any financial proposals the Government have? Does he not also agree that the postponement of an election until after the Budget is open to grave charges?
Might I inquire from the Taoiseach is it not a fact that the consideration was two Ministers and five Parliamentary Secretaries for pension? That is the whole cause of the hold-up.
They do not qualify for pensions—that is the answer to that.
That is the whole thing now.
Deputies
They do not qualify.
May I ask if all the matters which the Taoiseach now says he took into consideration and to which he gave full and absolute thought were taken into consideration before he made the statement on Thursday night? I am quoting from memory but I think I am right in saying that the Taoiseach issued a message on Thursday night stating that in his opinion, as a result of the by-election, a general election should be held, and that as soon as the necessary financial measures for the carrying on of the public services had been completed the dissolution would take place. Surely that is completely different——
It is not.
I am entitled to my opinion as well as the Taoiseach. Surely that is a completely different statement from the statement to-day. Anybody who knows anything at all about parliamentary procedure knows quite well that the financial provision which is made for the carrying on of the public services for a period of three or four months is by way of the Vote on Account. There is no question. The Taoiseach has been induced by somebody to change his mind.
The Taoiseach has not changed his mind. The Taoiseach very carefully and deliberately left the question there for completion until he should have examined——
In other words, you left yourself, as usual, a way out.
As usual, I said what I wanted to say.
Facing both ways, as usual.
He did not do what Deputy Costello did when he was Taoiseach.
Have a bit of decency and get out before you are kicked out.
While we are very glad to see the Minister for Finance back, he might behave himself.