At question time to-day I asked the Minister for Agriculture:—
"Whether he is aware of the general dissatisfaction prevailing in regard to the rigid grading of bacon pigs, and, if so, whether he will have an inquiry held regarding the working of the system to ascertain whether the reduced prices paid for heavier pigs are passed on to the consuming public in all cases."
The Minister informed me, in reply, that he was not aware that there is any foundation for the statement made in the first part of the question:—
"The position is that the purchase of pigs by bacon factories and pork exporters is on a freely competitive basis and the prices paid for the various weights of bacon pigs reflect the preference for lean bacon both on the home and export market.
With regard to the second part of the question, retail prices do not come within my province, but I would point out they have been the subject of a recent inquiry by the Prices Advisory Body and are controlled by Order of the Minister for Industry and Commerce."
I feel sure that this House and the Minister agree that the pig and bacon industry is a very important one in rural Ireland to-day, as many of our farmers and, indeed, many of our cottiers have to depend to a large extent for their livelihood on the pig industry. I maintained at question time to-day that these pig producers are being exploited by the bacon factories and, as a result, the bacon factories are reaping a rich financial harvest.
In reply to a supplementary question, the Minister made it very clear that a preference should exist as between the different grades of pigs; we all agree that that position should obtain. The reference in my question is to the rigid grading system that obtains and it is on that system that the bacon factories cash in and make their big profits. Now every Deputy knows that this was a very difficult year so far as pig production was concerned. It is agreed by all that for the summer months and the early months of the year there was not a single penny profit made by pig producers. They were producing pigs uneconomically and, that being the position, I believe there is an obligation on the Minister for Agriculture, whoever he may be, to ensure that these people are treated with justice and given fair play.
In raising this matter to-night, I want to make it quite clear that I regard the present Minister for Agriculture as as good a Minister as we could have. I believe he is most interested in the pig and bacon industry and that he is endeavouring to be as helpful as he possibly can to promote the interests of pig producers generally. It is in that spirit that I raise this matter and not in a spirit of trying to attack the Minister or find some fault with his administration. Any criticism I have to make of the Department of Agriculture so far as pig producers are concerned is entirely constructive.
I was amazed to-day when the Minister informed me that he was not aware that any dissatisfaction exists. I believe that he himself produces pigs and he must be a very fortunate man indeed if he is not dissatisfied with the prices he has received over the past few months from the bacon factories unless, of course, being who he is, the bacon factories treat him generously and give him some special consideration. In my opinion that could be the only reason why the Minister is not aware of the grave dissatisfaction that exists.
He informed me in reply to-day that pigs are bought on a competitive basis. Does not everyone know there is no such thing as competition in the pig market? Has not all that been done away with long ago? The pigs are bought as the bacon factories desire they should be bought. They lay down the terms and the producers have no say whatsoever in relation to those terms. I would like to inform the Minister, if he is not already aware of it, that when a pig producer in County Cork—I am sure the same applies in Roscommon—has pigs for the market, he sends them to the bacon factory and he must have them there at a particular time; they are graded; they are weighed; the price is marked down and the producer has no say whatsoever as to their grade, weight or price. If he disagrees with the weight or with the price he is told to take his pigs away. That is the position that obtains in every factory. I am convinced that in most factories there is a ring or combine working against the interests of the producers. Do not for one moment think there is such a thing as competition in the pig market to-day, for it is not there.
I have received from various pig producers, mainly small farmers and cottiers, many letters of complaint about the way they are being treated by the bacon factories in Cork. These are all responsible people and, having examined these letters and understanding the problem, I am satisfied their complaints are justified. I have been asked during the past few months to bring this matter to the notice of the Minister. I do so to-night in the strongest possible language at my command because I have faith in the Minister. I believe he will inquire into the allegations I make on behalf of pig producers all over Ireland.
Now the consuming public has just as big a complaint because everyone knows that, despite the fact that there was a sharp decline in the price of pigs at the factories, particularly during the spring and summer months of this year, no such reductions were passed on to the consuming public. It is a peculiar position that while farmers and pig producers are selling pigs at an average of 1/5 per lb. the consuming public here in Dublin City and in many provincial centres have on an average to pay 3/6 per lb. for bacon. Of course, in many cases, for the better cuts the price was 4/2, 4/4 and 4/6 a lb. Is it not a function of the Minister for Agriculture, in conjunction with his colleague the Minister for Industry and Commerce, to inquire where this differentiation went to? Into whose pockets did the difference of almost 2/-a lb. go? Surely it must have gone to the bacon factories. If it did not go to them it went to the wholesalers and then if it did not go to the wholesalers it went to the retailers. I am informed by many shopkeepers that they have got no benefit whatsoever from this system.
I understand that if you sell a pig weighing 9 st. 13 lb. to a bacon factory you get one price and if you sell a pig of 10 st. 1 lb. to the bacon factory you get another price. In the summer months, there was a difference of as much as 10/- between the prices of two such pigs. I should like to know if the Minister ever bought a 10 st. 1 lb. pig as against a 9 st. 13 lb. pig because in no shop in Dublin City or throughout the country was there anything such as grade A, B and C pigs: you paid the very same price for the pigs. The only price differentiation was in relation to the different cuts. I believe the Minister is aware of that fact and, if he is not, he should be aware of it. This rigid system is working against the producer and, at the same time, it is of no advantage whatsoever to the consumer.
For the past two years, the Cork County Committee of Agriculture have discussed this problem. We asked the bacon factories in Cork to receive a deputation from the committee of agriculture with a view to greater co-operation between the bacon curers and the pig producers. We asked that, in fairness, the bacon curers should make known their prices every day of the week. We got no co-operation whatsoever from these people. They told us it was no concern of ours even though the Cork County Committee of Agriculture represents the agricultural interests of the county. These people were able to ignore that body because of the monopoly they have in the bacon trade at the present time and because of the ring and combines which they have formed between themselves. This has been going on at least during the year 1954. Complaints are being made all over and, indeed, many individual complaints have been made to the Department of Agriculture. I object, then, to be told here in the middle of November that the Minister is not aware of any dissatisfaction whatsoever among pig producers. Is it not quite evident that they are dissatisfied when, during the past two months, there has been a decline of 50 per cent. of the pig population of this country? If my figures are correct, the number of pigs has declined by about 50 per cent. in the past two months because the pig producers are now satisfied they cannot deal with the bacon curers. They feel that the bacon curers have complete mastery of the position and, consequently, that they will not get any satisfaction. The result is that the pig population is declining and unless adequate steps are taken to safeguard the producer it will dwindle still further. It is mainly on this line that I raised this question on the Adjournment to-night.
I have given to the Minister, briefly, a statement of what I believe is the position so far as the pig industry is concerned. My information is based on the most reliable sources. It comes from pig producers. I know hundreds of them. I know a good deal about pigs, about the difficulty of producing them, about costings, and so forth. I say here as a Labour representative that the man who produces a pig is entitled, as a self-employed person, to a fair and just deal—just as much so as any other self-employed man or wage-earner is. He is not getting that square deal at the present time. I believe the obligation is on the Department of Agriculture to see to his interests. The Minister may, in his reply, state that the position is improving somewhat. The position is improving somewhat because the number of pigs is declining. The bacon factories now know that if they continue to pursue the policy which they pursued when pigs were in plentiful supply—particularly during the summer months—they will have to close down altogether. Part of my question seeks to have an inquiry held into the working of the system to ascertain whether the reduced prices paid for heavier pigs are passed on to the consuming public in all cases. In the circumstances, it was reasonable to demand this inquiry. The consuming public were entitled, when the prices were drastically reduced, to a reduction in the prices which they had to pay for bacon to the shopkeepers and others. So, both the producer of bacon in this country and the consumer got a raw deal—and it is the middle people who are doing well out of this business.
I suggest that the Minister tell the House his opinion of the position. I want him to state clearly whether, in his opinion, the bacon curers are giving a fair and square deal to the pig producers and also whether or not he is satisfied that the margins of profit of wholesalers and retailers are justifiable. Further, I want him to state clearly what he intends to do to enable this industry to continue—an industry which is giving so much self-employment to many of our people and which is so helpful to small farmers and cottiers and other people in the country.
