If an industry is established anywhere in Dublin it is because of economic circumstances, and it is established by those who have money or technical knowledge to initiate it. In many cases—in practically every case—persons who have money to invest will go to the area where they get the greatest market and see the greatest possible return for their money. It is only natural that the industrial expansion which took place in the last quarter of a century concentrated largely around Dublin and other large centres of population.
What is important from the point of view of the Government and the Minister for Industry and Commerce is to try and encourage those people who are interested in industrialisation to invest their money in factories and projects outside Dublin and, if possible in the remote areas of the West of Ireland. But if industrialists or a group of investors come together and seek whatever facilities are required for establishing an industry to manufacture or process certain types of commodity and if it is desirable that that commodity should be manufactured here or processed in this country, and if these people say they wish to establish the industry in a certain place or not at all, it is very difficult in these circumstances for a Minister for Industry and Commerce and the Government to tell them to be off with their money and that they are not wanted unless the industry is placed where the Government wants it to be established.
It is only natural under these circumstances that the most practical way of establishing industries outside Dublin and of achieving decentralisation of industry is for the Government itself to do so, or by way of inducement or encouragement to get private enterprise to do it outside. That has been done to some extent by the Act setting up Foras Tionscal, the Undeveloped Areas Act. If Deputy O'Hara has confidence in the present Minister that the trend will be altered I am afraid his confidence is not supported by the facts if we can take them from this Estimate on which a reduction of £25,000 towards the grant for Foras Tionscal is indicative of some slackening of effort in that respect.
It is only natural thát, in the early months, and possibly the first two years of the establishment of Foras Tionscal, projects would be submitted which were impracticable, as they were incapable of economic development, and that, naturally, much of their preliminary investigations would be taken up in examining projects which were not really worth while. Now that the machinery has been more or less run in, we would imagine that the flow of grants towards the establishment of industries and factories in the West of Ireland should be rather accelerated. It is rather disheartening to know that the Minister, and Foras Tionscal itself, has given some indication that that amount of money is to be reduced, in the present year, at any rate.
I have some other general remarks to make and, in view of the fact that other speakers have tried to get in, I will make them as concisely as possible. Deputy Donegan spoke with a knowledge of the boot and shoe industry that seemed out of the ordinary, inasmuch as he was able to quote figures of the number of people who were employed in the different aspects of the leather industry. Apparently, in the interests of his few factories in Louth in which boots and shoes are manufactured, he is prepared to jettison the future employment of those people engaged in the tanning industry throughout the country. He quoted Deputy Lemass as saying that, in view of the prices to be paid for cattle, even if a slight reduction were made in respect of the hides, the producers of cattle would not, as a result, object.
The Deputy tried to make it appear that Deputy Lemass had no regard whatever for the reasonable profits of the farmers. Deputy Lemass qualified that in a very material way when he referred to the damage done to cattle hides by the warble fly. He said—and I am sure he did not say so without knowledge of what the real circumstances were—that, if the warble fly pest were properly and seriously tackled, at any rate, the value of those hides to the producers would be considerably increased. But, apart altogether from that, I am given to understand by people who presume to be experts that the warble fly damages not only the hides of the cattle but the physical structure of the beast, the milk output and the quality of the meat.
In that respect, apart altogether from the value of the hides, the return to the farming community as a result of the efficient extermination of the warble fly, would be considerable. For many years we have been hearing of the low milk output of Irish cattle, and I believe, in this, the warble fly has played a considerable part.
The fact remains that the boot and shoe industry, not only in the constituency of Louth, but throughout the whole country, and to a considerable extent in Cork, has suffered by whatever policy is in operation with regard to the distribution of leather. I suppose it is also affected by the demand for the manufactured commodity, but nevertheless an enlightened approach will have to be made to ensure continuity of employment of people engaged in that industry. It is saddening to see young people who have left school at the age of 14, 15 or 16, work at that particular trade, and then, when they have set up homes and families, to find themselves working on short time, only one day a week, and often not more than three days a week. It is unfortunately true in my constituency.
I appeal to the Minister to adopt a vigorous and enlightened examination of this trade to ensure that all its branches would be put into as full a scale of production as possible, and not, as Deputy Donegan seems to imply, jettison the whole aspect of it, in favour of the others. By a proper examination of the whole structure, I hope that, starting from the work on the beast itself, and the finishing of the shoe, there is considerable opportunity for increased employment, which would add considerably to the economy of the country.
There is one aspect of the tourist industry to which I would like to refer. While I have knowledge of particular cases, I will speak on this subject generally. A couple of years ago the Tourist Board was given power by this House to provide grants to people who owned hotels in order to improve their amenities, attract visitors, and thereby add to the value of the industry generally. A system for the giving of grants was envisaged in that Bill, and was ultimately evolved, to some extent, under the guidance of the Tourist Board. When such a measure is brought before the House and passed, one expects that the persons whom it is going to benefit might be persons who would otherwise not be in a position to get the grant facilities offered. It would be interesting to know how many hotel proprietors have successfully applied for grants under this legislation.
If the obstruction—or rather I would prefer to say obligation—imposed by the Tourist Board for those grants, is so onerous as to force people to obtain their money direct from the commercial banks, then that legislation would not be worth while, and whatever administrative structure is there for its carrying out should be abandoned. The position is that people who have made applications are being asked to forward all kinds of accounts, and to provide all kinds of securities far beyond, in my opinion, what any commercial bank would demand from applicants. I am only making very general remarks, because I do not want to refer in particular to any one case, but I would ask the Minister and the officers of his Department who are responsible, to look into this particular problem, because I know it exists. In many cases people are getting tired of the terms and obligations imposed on them for getting these grants.
Reference was made by Deputy Barrett to Cork Airport. I would say at this stage that the Cork Airport is not going to upset the political life of all the Cork Deputies in future. There are many other problems, but it is time that we knew and were told where we stand in regard to this. My knowledge is that there is a private company prepared to operate scheduled services from the airport outside Cork. The Department of Industry and Commerce whose responsibility it is to regulate such matters, are not satisfied that the facilities offered by this organisation, or company, are sufficient, from the point of view of ordinary safety. The company claims that many aeroplanes have landed there without a hitch.
The view of the Department of Industry and Commerce is that the future of air services in this country might be impaired if facilities were given for the operation of air services on an airfield which was not up to international standard. The object is, and it was so agreed by the last Government, to establish under the auspices of Aer Lingus, or whatever public company there is, an efficient and properly constructed airport in Cork. I wonder would it bring this matter to a head, with regard to the claims of private enterprise and the financial precautions which must be taken to ensure human safety, to demand to have, at this stage, a full survey of what is required for an air port there, and get a fairly close estimate of what it would cost to construct and run it, and then put it up to this company which claims that they are prepared to operate a service. If they are not prepared to do so, it is time for the Government to act.
With private enterprise claiming they can do it, and the Department of Industry and Commerce saying that the size and the quality of the services required are incapable of being operated by this particular company, we are getting nowhere fast in solving the problem. But sooner or later public demand will increase, and at that time, possibly, a case for the airport will have increased over and above what it would cost at the present time. There is no doubt that such a project is desirable, having regard to the returns from Dublin Airport about which we have read recently. It would be profitable, and apart altogether from the benefit that would accrue to the area, considerable benefit would accrue generally to the economy of the country, in that it would give facilities to business people for carrying out their business expeditiously and efficiently.
There is one important matter to which I would like to refer also in a general way. It is something to which I have referred to already in a recent debate in this House, that is, the hire-purchase facilities offered in the country at present. That is bound up in the manner in which big stores in this country are being hired by foreign capital. I am not opposed to hire-purchase, in fact I am in favour of it. I agree that, with the increasing standard of living in this country, the ordinary amenities of life which at one time were regarded as luxuries, should be available as soon as possible to a young couple setting up a home. They should be enable to get electric fires, electric cookers, vacuum cleaners, and all the other amenities that go to make life more pleasant for the average household. Recently we saw that the British Chancellor of the Exchequer saw fit to impose restrictions on hire-purchase facilities in England because of their inflationary tendencies. In this country many old established stores are being sold out to these people, not only in Dublin, but outside it. Such people are in a very big way in this hire-purchase business in Great Britain. Nobody can object very strenuously to shareholders of business houses and other firms in this country who seek an opportunity for getting good value for their investments.
An extension of the hire-purchase facilities in this country to too great an extent would have serious economic and domestic repercussions. Many young people are buying houses on the basis of long-term and reasonably cheap loans advanced by lending companies. They are taking advantage of the remission of rates which is offered under present legislation—two-thirds remission for the first seven years. It is very easy for a young married couple to buy furniture, wireless sets, electric fires and other things on the hire-purchase system, because they find that they have so much to pay in repayment of their loan, so much only to be paid in rates per annum, and very little to pay in the maintenance and upkeep of the house. But after a time their demands become greater; a family begins to come along, their remission of rates has come to an end, and the house is in need of certain repairs. They find it means a return to hire-purchase agreements, and at this stage serious damage is being done to many honest and genuine people in this country.
The tendency now is for big stores who have done what might be described as repectable business—I am not saying hire-purchase is not respectable—to sell out to these combines. I would submit that the Minister should watch carefully in order to ensure that this problem will not engulf the country. It is something which should be watched fairly and impartially, but effectively, so as not to cause damage, not alone to the domestic end, but to the whole economic structure.
Fuel has been mentioned on a couple of occasions, and that reminds me that recently in Cork we had a coal crisis. As a result of co-operation between Deputies of all Parties, the merchants, and the Minister, the running out of supplies was avoided. Nevertheless, the position is unsatisfactory. Deputy Lemass in his statement on this particular debate suggested that some kind of a public company or some organisation should be set up to ensure that the flow of coal into the country and its internal distribution should be as smoothly and as evenly done as possible. We heard Deputies from Donegal complaining about the shortages of coal there and the difference in price between the price there and elsewhere throughout the country.
We in Cork had experience of shortages which could have created a run and a scarcity price. That was averted by co-operation on all sides. If those things are going to recur it will not redound to the general economic progress of the country and the enjoyment of the life of the people in centres outside of Dublin area. Now that the amount of coal for export in England is becoming diminished, it is high time some practical steps would be taken to ensure that in so far as coal supplies are necessary in this country they should be made available and distributed throughout the country as evenly and as fairly as possible.
This brings me to another problem. It is not so much a problem as a desirable development. Bord na Móna have been manufacturing for some time at Lullymore what are now known as Lullymore briquettes. I have on occasions bought sufficient of them as would fit into a hand-grip and brought them to Cork. They are not procurable in Cork or in any part of the country south of the Midlands because they are not economic having regard to the cost of distribution.
Their calorific content, I believe, although I have not tested it, must be near that of coal. That briquette would be a very desirable and adequate substitute for coal if it were available more generally. I would suggest that the Minister should take up the matter with Bord na Móna. Now that they are operating in an increasing manner outside of the Midland bogs, that particular development should be introduced in bogs other than the Lullymore bog. One which is operating, I believe, to a considerable extent is Littleton. If Littleton briquettes were made like the Lullymore briquettes, perhaps, they could be distributed to centres to which it would be uneconomic to send the Lullymore briquettes.
For some months there has been a bakery dispute in Cork and, largely because the average housewife is not suffering to any extent, little is being done about its solution. Efforts were made by the clergy and by some public representatives to interest themselves in it, but so far without any result. Early on in the dispute the Labour Court sat and made certain pronouncements. There is a certain difficulty— and one can readily see it—on the part of the operatives with regard to limitations of output; it is a serious thing for them and to give in too readily might, in their opinion—and possibly with some justification they hold that opinion—affect their continuity of employment. That matter having been referred to the Labour Court and the court having made its recommendation, I suggest that the court should not just sit back and do nothing.
I do not want to do or say anything that might prejudice the effectiveness of the Labour Court, but it should be something more of a conciliatory body than a judicial body and when it sees some points in its recommendation that are unacceptable to one side or the other, it should have some conciliation officer who will continue to try to bring the parties together and so avoid prolonging disputes such as this. Unfortunately, there are scores of bakery operatives in Cork now dependent on whatever social welfare benefits they are entitled to—which are entirely inadequate to maintain themselves and their families on a proper scale. I would ask the Minister to make sure that there is some conciliation machinery established, as an extension of the Labour Court, to prevent such disputes becoming prolonged.
People in public life, particularly Dáil Deputies, are often asked what they are doing about such disputes. I have a theory of my own, whether I am right or wrong, that no politician should intervene in these disputes except at the invitation of both sides— not merely one side, but both sides. It often happens that when a person in public life intervenes the effect is to prolong the particular dispute. Therefore, I would ask the Minister to have some regard to my suggestion of a conciliation side as well as an arbitration side of the Labour Court.
We have been agitating in Cork for some time past for the establishment of a bus depôt. We do not want one on the lines of Store Street. We realise that Store Street is a monument to Irish architecture and is a great credit to those who envisaged it, devised it, constructed it and are now operating it. In Cork we have only a series of sheds, converted lean-to's, to house those who travel by long-distance bus services. While they are waiting for the buses they at least get shelter from the rain but certainly not from draughts and other vagaries of the weather. The facilities offered are almost primitive.
The corporation has been concerned with the problem for many months and has passed resolutions, but in my humble submission we are getting scant respect or attention from C.I.E. We are told that a site is being procured or being examined but we are given no indication as to where it is. We do not want to know where it is until the time comes to erect it, but we are not satisfied that everything that can be done is being done. We are asked to stay quiet and not to prejudice the situation, not to prejudice the acquisition of a site or create a stampede with regard to the purchase of property in the immediate vicinity. We are prepared to cooperate in that, but our patience is not unlimited and the patience of the public has begun to be strained almost to breaking point. Unless this matter is attended to soon and unless some evidence is given of the intention of C.I.E. to commence this work, that breaking point will soon be reached.
I have been asked by a number of people to refer to the Fair Trade Commission. The machinery envisaged under the Act that set it up apparently was that, when the commission discovered some matter that required the attention of the Minister, separate legislation would be introduced for that matter here. The impression has gone abroad that once they examine a particular complaint concerning the supply and distribution of a commodity, once the manufacturers and distributors have been put through the mill and questioned before the commission, nothing more is done about it. I would ask the Minister to give an indication of the investigations which have been carried out by the commission that have called for action on his part, whether any action has been taken or whether the position has been found to be all that could be desired. People are asking if the commission is there without having any effect other than the public examination of a particular industry or trade. Something further should be done to ensure its effectiveness.
Lastly, I am not going to follow Deputy O'Hara on the claims of Blacksod for the establishment of the oil refinery. We know the decision is largely one for the companies who are putting up the capital themselves. The only pity is—and I am not saying this with any disrespect or in judgment of the Minister's attitude—that he appears, having regard to the agitation that we have seen since, to have made the pronouncement rather prematurely. I am sure that, as a responsible Minister in the Government, which has regard to the general national good, he would try to ensure that this refinery would be established in the place where it would do most good and which would be most suited for it; but I feel that if this clamour by every port in the country is prolonged it might seriously prejudice the establishment of any oil refinery. The Minister should have withheld his pronouncement until the question had been further advanced, so as to avoid this clamour which is unbecoming of public representatives in this country. I feel that wherever it is established it will be established with the approval of the Minister and the Government and largely on the technical considerations that those who are responsible for its erection will have to have regard to.
I want to revert to the subject of buses and bus depots. In Cork for a number of years we seem to be getting the hand-me-downs and the casts-off of the Dublin transport services in the matter of buses. When Deputy Morrissey was Minister for Industry and Commerce I asked whether he intended to do anything about it. I asked him that question the first week I came into this Dáil and, as far as I remember, he said that such was not the case. He said there was no question of taking buses that had been in service in Dublin for a considerable number of years and, after painting and polishing and dressing them up, sending them down to Cork. I think that such was and still continues to be the case.
It is grossly unfair that we should get the hand-me-downs of the Dublin City buses. It is not uncommon in Cork to see a bus drawn up by the side of the road because it has broken down. The stranded passengers have to wait to be taken off by another bus and, after maybe half an hour or longer, a repair gang comes along to try and repair the broken-down bus. If C.I.E. are bringing new buses into service I suggest they should do so according to the complement in each particular centre. I do not assert that Cork alone should get new buses because the same applies to other towns and cities which have local bus services.
Apropos my reference to the Cork Airport, the Minister announced his intention of asking somebody—I suppose Irish Shipping Limited—to examine the possibility of a transatlantic liner service. If Deputy Lemass is right in saying that it would cost about £200 per ton to supply an adequate vessel for this purpose I think that, even at this stage, the cost would be exorbitant having regard to the national advantage that would ensue. In this respect, I think the Minister is only trying to create a mirage in his Department as regards the shipping side of his responsibilities. It would be better if he devoted his attention and whatever money he may have at his disposal to a more practical line such as the supplying of more merchant vessels and more tankers. I consider a transatlantic liner service an unnecessary luxury.
