Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 3 Mar 1959

Vol. 173 No. 3

Committee on Finance. - Imposition of Duties (Confirmation of Orders) Bill, 1959—Committee and Final Stages.

Sections 1 and 2 agreed to.

SCHEDULE.

Question proposed: "That the Schedule be the Schedule to the Bill".

Mr. Norton

Would it be convenient for the Minister if I used the Explanatory Memorandum? I should like to know what items are covered in No. 8, the Imposition of Duties (No. 19) (Glucose) Order, 1958. There was a duty at the rate of 37½ per cent. full and 25 per cent. preference. I notice now that a minimum duty is being imposed. Will the Minister explain the need for the minimum duty and what percentage duty does the minimum duty of £30 full and £20 preference represent?

Under the Imposition of Duties (No. 20) (Berets) Order, 1958, there is a minimum rate of duty of 5/7½ full and 3/9 preference. What is the idea of the 5/7½? I have never seen a figure of that kind before in regard to duties, whether full or preferential. Is there any scientific formula used to get the 7½d.?

Mr. S. Lemass

It is 150 per cent. of 3/9!

Mr. Norton

Who managed to hit on that figure? With regard to the duty on slide fasteners, I should like the Minister to say how many people are now employed in this industry?

What are the imports of slide fasteners at present? At one stage, the situation was very bad from the standpoint of their being very large imports and a relatively small number of persons employed. If the Minister looks at the file, he will see that certain steps had to be taken to bring about a reversal of the process then extant. I should like to know what the present position is.

With regard to pot scourers, No. 37, could the Minister say what number of persons are employed making pot scourers? What is the value of the imports?

With regard to spectacles, No. 45, could the Minister say how many firms are making spectacles and where are they located?

With regard to cast-iron baths, No. 50, the duty on these baths has varied from time to time. The industry always seems to be in the battle for a new range of duty. We have now reached the stage at which the full rate of duty is £9 and the preferential rate £5 per bath. Could the Minister say what percentage is £9 full and £6 preferential in relation to the present price charged for baths in this country?

Having put these questions to the Minister, I do not wish to cause him any difficulty in getting the appropriate answers at this stage. I am quite willing to leave the answers to the Report Stage, if that will help the Minister.

Mr. S. Lemass

It is no trouble at all.

Mr. Crotty

I raised a few questions on the Second Reading. In relation to artificial silk, I want to know how many yards were imported and the total cost. I also asked the Minister about peas and the Minister said this was only a device and the people who can peas are able to import free of duty. If that is so, why the increase from 2d. to 6d.? Could he not have left the duty as it was, if this is merely a device?

I should also like to know if he inquired whether the waxed paper manufacturers are still in business and able to do business, or do they want a monopoly such as they had under the 30 per cent. duty?

Mr. S. Lemass

With regard to some of these duties about which Deputy Norton inquired, the modification of the rate, or the imposition of a minimum rate, arose out of evidence of dumping here because of temporary circumstances prevailing elsewhere, or because of the emergence of a situation which seemed to threaten the stability of an existing industry here. That is particularly true in relation to glucose. There were some developments affecting the production of glucose which could have had a prejudicial effect upon its production here. The efforts of certain firms to enlarge their share of the world market brought about a fairly substantial fall in price. No doubt, the price to which glucose fell could not be maintained for any length of time because it was uneconomic but it was decided not to allow that temporary situation to interfere with the production of glucose here.

Mr. Norton

Could the Minister say whether that threat was from the area to which the full rate of duty or the preferential rate applied?

Mr. S. Lemass

It was not from any particular area. The Deputy is no doubt aware that there are very powerful organisations in that field and their operations extend beyond national boundaries to a large extent. Other factors were also involved. Our industry was only getting into its stride and, as the Deputy knows, it is not yet in full production on the basis planned. It was felt that we should keep the industry going and, to offset any commercial disadvantage to firms here, arrangements were made to supply at a considerably reduced price, where production for export was involved or, to allow firms to import, where re-export was being undertaken.

In the case of slide fasteners, that again is a minimum duty. It is about the only effective duty that can operate in the case of commodities of that kind where the product is sold as part of another commodity at a much higher price than the cost of the actual unit.

These are zip fasteners. Incorporated in a lady's dress, or something of that kind, the price of the fastener would be of no great moment and a minimum rate of duty is, therefore, required.

Mr. Norton

I think the Minister will agree it is important if the consumers have to pay £35,000 in duty on imported slide fasteners and only a fraction of that sum is paid in wages.

Mr. S. Lemass

Some new firms have gone into production and 50 to 60 workers are now employed. There is no good reason to anticipate that there will not be very keen competition between the existing firms for the home market.

Mr. Norton

That is an improvement.

Mr. S. Lemass

In the case of spectacles, the purpose of that duty is to prevent an evasion of the protective duty upon spectacle frames. It did not apply to sun glasses. Frames with bits of coloured glass in them were being imported under the description of sun glasses for the purpose of avoiding the paying of the tariff. The definition was amended to cover that situation. In the case of baths, there was substantial evidence of dumping and a minimum duty was imposed to make the protection effective. I am afraid I cannot tell Deputy Crotty a great deal about——

Mr. Norton

What does £9 full and £6 preference represent in a percentage duty in regard to baths?

Mr. S. Lemass

I could not answer that. The price would vary from about £12 in the lowest range to £100 in the highest. It would represent 100 per cent. in the lower range and very much less in the higher.

Mr. Norton

Would it represent 100 per cent.?

Mr. S. Lemass

On the very cheapest line, certainly. The competition that was directed against, the dumping operations it was designed to eliminate, was coming from certain Iron Curtain countries with which we had no——

Mr. Norton

What is the employment given by the protective duty on pot scourers?

Mr. S. Lemass

I could not tell the Deputy. A firm was manufacturing these goods and did not make a go of it. It went out of business and the duty was suspended. Another firm has now taken up their production again in Roscrea. They are only now getting into production. I could not give employment figures.

Mr. Norton

Are there more or fewer than four people?

Mr. S. Lemass

Certainly.

Mr. Norton

Certainly, what? Fewer?

Mr. S. Lemass

More. I do not know. The firm is only getting into production now. I do not know what the situation is at the moment. I was about to tell Deputy Crotty that in the case of dried peas an arrangement of this kind must involve some effective measure to control the import of the peas. As I explained, the arrangement made with the Minister for Agriculture is designed to ensure that peas will be imported free of duty by any firm engaged in packaging peas which has contracted with Irish farmers to grow peas for them. An arrangement of that kind would not be effective at all, if the duty were not high enough. Certainly any weakening of it would merely weaken the inducement for these firms to get peas grown here.

Mr. Crotty

Could the Minister not make some other arrangements? Could he not make arrangements much the same as are made in relation to the importation of sugar?

Mr. S. Lemass

In effect, that is what is done. In the case of sugar, there is only one firm involved, but in the case of peas there are quite a number.

Mr. Crotty

I appreciate that, but could the people not get a licence rather than having a tariff imposed?

Mr. S. Lemass

That is what is done. They get a licence to import free of tariff.

Mr. Crotty

If they get a licence, there is no necessity for the tariff.

Mr. S. Lemass

It is for those who have not a licence.

Mr. Crotty

A licence is given to import sugar, yet there is no tariff on it. I think the Minister could make some other arrangement in this matter. Was there any importation of dried peas in 1957? I asked the Minister that question the last day and I thought he would be briefed to-day. I gave the Minister notice of it.

Question put and agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

This Bill is a Money Bill in accordance with Article 22 of the Constitution.