asked the Minister for Health whether he has power to enforce the carrying out by local health authorities of the instructions issued to them by his Department in Circular No. 40/56 of 3rd July, 1956, regarding old age pensioners and widows non-contributory pensioners.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Old Age Pensions and Widows Non-Contributory Pensions.
8.
I may remind the Deputy that the determination of eligibility for services under Section 14 of the Health Act, 1953, to which his question relates, is entirely a question for the appropriate health authorities and I have no statutory functions in the matter.
Section 14 of the Act requires health authorities to provide the services referred to in the section for persons "who are unable, by their own industry or other lawful means" to provide the services for themselves or their dependants. No fixed means scale is used in determining eligibility, each case being considered on its merits.
I understand that, in general, health authorities regard recipients of non-contributory Old Age or Widows pensions and their dependants as eligible for services under section 14 of the Act. From inquiries made from local authorities into cases where such persons were regarded as ineligible for the services, it appears that in determining that the applicant was ineligible his or her domestic circumstances, including the income of the household, were taken into account by the health authority.
Local health authorities appear to be in the best position to assess the circumstances of applicants for the services and I do not consider that any change in the present statutory position is called for.
Is the Minister aware that a motion was tabled by a Councillor in Carlow County Council seeking to implement the circular issued by the Minister himself and asking the county manager to give those non-contributory pensioners in receipt of a full pension and their dependants the medical services, to which the Minister indicated he felt they were entitled, and that that has been refused by that county manager? If the Minister is so aware, can he do anything about it?
I am afraid not. I have no such power under the Health Acts. That is certain.
Would the Minister not consider taking power?
That is a matter that might be the subject of a great deal of controversy in certain circles.
Would the Minister agree it is a wholly evil principle to lay down that where a non-contributory old age pensioner is living with a family the family income should be taken into consideration for the purpose of depriving the old age pensioner of the blue card?
I used to hear a great deal about the moral considerations which were involved in the Health Acts. There are others. After all, there is the Fourth Commandment, that we should provide for our parents.
Exactly, and is it not the whole purpose to make that possible and to encourage people to do it? If as a result of providing for your parents you simply discover that State benefits, to which they are entitled, if you do not provide for them are withdrawn, does that not set a premium on having your parents a member of the family? It is exactly opposite to the social policy, which is accepted on every side of this House, that any family should be able to keep a parent who is old and feeble as a member of that family without any consequential disadvantage to the aged person.
Is the Minister aware that on a previous occasion the Minister for Finance, answering a similar question on his behalf said that, whilst the manager had the power to give or deprive an old age pensioner of a medical service card, in the opinion of the Minister for Finance, speaking on behalf of the Minister for Health, these old pensioners should automatically get medical service cards?
I suppose there must be an exception to every rule, but there are, as we know, old age pensioners who live in quite affluent families, whose sons and daughters are quite affluent. Why should the poor people of Ireland have to contribute to their support?
Surely a person who qualifies for an old age pension has undergone a rigorous means test which will not allow him to have more than £2 per week. It seems to us, therefore, that the means test for the medical service card for an old age pensioner is even more rigorous than for the old age pension. The Minister should apply the Ten Commandments to the old age pension as well as to the blue card.
The Deputy should not talk as if he were living on a remote planet. He lives among an agricultural community. We know that very substantial farms have been surrendered, perhaps properly surrendered, and one of the inducements to the surrender of the land was that the person was going to receive an old age pension.
You told them they could do that.
In 1932. There was a social problem.
The people in the cities have no farms to give away.
That is true.
You take all their moneys into account, little girls' incomes.
I do not, but the Deputy does. He is a member of the Dublin Corporation.