Vol. 192 No. 4
asked the Minister for Finance whether in view of his speech to the Dublin Stock Exchange on 14th November he will state if he intends to introduce legislation for the issuing of shares in State companies to private persons; and when he intends to introduce such legislation.
10.
asked the Minister for Finance whether in view of his speech to the Dublin Stock Exchange on 14th November he will state in respect of which of the State companies he is considering issuing shares to private persons.
11.
asked the Minister for Finance whether in view of his speech to the Dublin Stock Exchange on 14th November he will state what proportion of the total capital of any State company he intends issuing in the form of shares to private persons.
12.
asked the Minister for Finance the State companies the shares of which it is proposed to issue for public subscription, the amount in each case, the proportion such shares will bear to the total capital of the companies concerned and the terms of issue in each case.
13.
asked the Minister for Finance if in respect of his announcement at a recent Dublin banquet he will state the successful State companies, shares in which are proposed to be placed on the public market; whether it is proposed to sell shares at present held by the State or to issue new ones; and, if so, what class of share it is proposed to issue, and on what terms; whether it is intended that the State will retain control of these companies; and if he will explain why it is intended to adopt this new principle which will enable speculators to profit from capital investment by the State.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13 together.
The primary aim of Government policy in the commercial and industrial sectors of the economy is to encourage private investment in these fields of activity. In certain cases, however, undertakings have had to be sponsored as Government projects either for particular reasons of public policy or——
I cannot hear a word the Minister is saying.
I am sorry. In certain cases, I say, however, undertakings have had to be sponsored as Government projects either for particular reasons of public policy or because it was considered unlikely that they would be initiated by private interests. It is desirable, where circumstances permit, that the Irish investing public be given the opportunity of sharing as widely as practicable in the control of these undertakings, and this objective is kept constantly in mind by the Government. The issue to the public of shares in State-sponsored concerns would not only encourage more private investment in Irish commercial and industrial projects by widening the field of investment but would also result in the freeing of State-owned capital for other desirable purposes.
The Deputies will appreciate, however, that there are certain difficulties to be surmounted, including the problems of obtaining for the State a fair recompense in respect of capital already invested and, where a monopoly position is enjoyed, ensuring that the affairs of the companies would continue to be conducted in the national interest.
My recent statement on the matter, to which the Deputies have referred, was intended to convey that at the moment I have under examination the possibility of putting on the public market some of the capital of State-sponsored companies. I am not yet, however, in a position to say which companies are likely to be included in these proposals or to give any further details. Much preparatory work has still to be done.
Would the Minister say whether the Government accept, even at this stage, the principle of retaining a majority of shareholding interests in these State companies?
In some, certainly; not perhaps in others.
Does it follow from that that it is possible some of these State-sponsored companies might in fact be handed over to private control, notwithstanding the risks which the State has borne to establish them?
Could we take it that the position might arise as a result of this, in which a company which is in production in a big way, say, in the fruit and vegetable business, might be completely sabotaged by having its position altered and another company allowed to move in and take control?
I shall answer Deputy Norton's question first. In my opinion, certain of these companies could be handed over and others not. I have not put any individual case before the Government so therefore I cannot answer for the Government.
Would the Minister say whether a Government decision has been taken in this matter and if the Government agree with the terms of a speech made by the Minister at the venue referred to?
I have not asked the Government whether they approve of my speech yet.
Is it the position that some of these companies might be handed over?
Yes.
The whole lot?
Some.
One complete company?
Possibly one complete company.
The ones that are losing money or making money?
If companies are losing money, we will hardly be able to hand them over.
Would the Minister consider issuing a comprehensive White Paper on this matter, so that any Government decisions can be considered before a Bill is introduced?
I do not think any of these can be changed without legislation.
Would the Minister say when legislation in this respect is contemplated?
I hope sometime in the coming year.
Is it not an entirely revolutionary procedure——
I do not think so.
——for the Minister for Finance to make a considered speech on a chosen occasion announcing a very fundamental departure in Government policy without having consulted the Government?
No; I should like to say that it may not have been a considered speech. It was in answer to a statement made by a previous speaker as to whether we intended doing this and I gave that answer. However, it was in line with Government policy.
We have done it previously.
Will the Taoiseach say when it was done?
The coal mine in Tipperary.
Oh, now.
You sold the whole lot there.
When the Minister says the Government are anxious to free capital for other investments, for other projects, are we to take it that he has some reason to believe that if he wants to float a loan in the normal way for such projects, that loan would not be filled?
That is a separate question.
It arises from the Minister's answer. Is that not the way to approach the matter if he wants additional capital——
It does not arise.
——instead of selling out State companies?
