asked the Taoiseach whether he has any statement to make on the present position in regard to the Irish application for membership of the European Economic Community.
3.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Ireland's EEC Membership Application.
2.
asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement outlining the progress made during the period since Dáil Éireann rose for the Summer recess in regard to this country's application for membership of the European Economic Community; and if he will give an account of his talks with the various European heads of State and Government Ministers with whom he has had contact in recent weeks.
4.
asked the Taoiseach what is the present position of Ireland's application for membership of the EEC.
5.
asked the Taoiseach if any progress has been made with the application of this country to join the European Economic Community; if he will state the present position of the application; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
6.
Mr. Ryan
asked the Taoiseach the present position regarding this country's application to join the European Economic Community.
7.
asked the Taoiseach whether or not the fate of Ireland's application to join the Common Market is wholly dependent upon the progress of England's application for entry.
8.
asked the Taoiseach whether, should England not join the Common Market, it is the Government's intention to firmly pursue Ireland's application.
9.
andMr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach whether the Government propose to proceed with the application for admission to the E.E.C., should Britain not join.
With your permission, Sir, I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 to 9, inclusive, together.
During my recent visits to member countries of the European Economic Community, I had discussions with certain Heads of State and Heads of Government as well as with members of each of the Six Governments and with the Chairman of the Commission of the EEC. These meetings afforded me an opportunity of informing myself of the situation in the Community and of ensuring a full understanding of Ireland's position as an applicant for membership. I am happy to be able to record my appreciation of the goodwill towards Ireland, and towards our application, which was shown by everyone with whom I came in contact.
As Deputies will be aware, the Council of the Community last week agreed to the opening of negotiations on our application for membership of the Community under Article 237 of the Treaty of Rome. These negotiations will begin on a date to be fixed by agreement between our Government and the Governments of the member States.
I may mention in this connection that, having regard, on the one hand, to the intrinsic importance and the complexities of the British application, and, on the other, to the heavy programme of work devolving on the services of the Community, the member States have decided to give absolute priority to that application. It is thus unlikely that substantive negotiations with us will begin for some months.
As regards the relationship between our application and that of Britain, it is quite clear that failure of the British application for any reason would create an entirely new situation for all concerned and one about which it would be impossible to make any useful conjecture at the present stage.
Is the Taoiseach in a position to say to us, as a result of these discussions or from any other source, whether there is any reasonable estimate available of when the negotiations between the European Economic Community and Great Britain will have concluded?
No. There is, I gather, a hope that an outline agreement may be completed early next year but when the subsequent completion of that outline and of all the details of the agreement may take place is still uncertain. I found in Europe a general hope that it might be possible to complete negotiations with a view to Britain's accession to membership of the EEC by the 1st of January, 1964. Some of those to whom I talked regarded that estimate as pessimistic and others as optimistic but it seemed to be the date that most people had in mind.
Are we to assume from that that the Taoiseach does not contemplate any detailed discussion of Ireland's application until a date subsequent to 1964 or might we assume that after the skeleton settlement had been arrived at agreeing in principle to the adhesion of Great Britain to the Common Market the negotiations on Ireland's application might be forthwith undertaken?
The expectation is that negotiations with other applicant states will begin when the outline agreement has been reached.
In view of the Taoiseach's statement today and the many statements that have been made since the House last sat, may I take it that we still have an assurance that the terms upon which Ireland may be admitted to membership of the European Community will be submitted to this House and the House given an opportunity of pronouncing on these details before we, in fact, become members of the Community?
Of course, that is the situation.
Would it be correct to assume that if for some reason or another Britain's application is either withdrawn or refused, our application will not be proceeded with and that we will withdraw?
The situation that could arise in that eventuality would be so uncertain that it would be quite impossible, and unwise at this stage, to attempt to reach any decision as to what our action might be.
Why not be straight about it?
Is it a fact that the Taoiseach is reported as stating to a group of European journalists early this year that in the event of Britain's application not being accepted, the Irish application for full membership would still be pursued? Did the Taoiseach make that statement or not?
What I said was that in the event of the British application not proceeding, we would wish to proceed with our application, if it were economically possible for us to do so. That, as I pointed out, would depend on the relations which might then exist between Britain and the Community and would also, of course, depend upon the policy of the Community with regard to the admission of new members in the event of Britain not being a member.
How does the Taoiseach reconcile that statement now with his statement to this House in July, 1961 and the White Paper issued in July, 1961 that it would not be in the national interest to join if the United Kingdom were not a member, or words to that effect? Why has the Taoiseach changed his attitude in the past 12 months on that very vital issue?
I made that statement before Britain applied for membership, in relation to the question of our application. If their application should fail, that would be a situation in which it would be wise for us to look again at the whole position and I am sure other countries of Europe would want to do the same thing.
Is the Taoiseach taking into consideration, when he talks about pursuing our application in the event of Britain not joining, the position as regards the Six Counties when it would appear that if Britain stays out, the border between the Six Counties and the Twenty-six counties is widening on political grounds? In view of the Taoiseach's original statement that membership of the Common Market would help to bring about the end of Partition, how does he consider or see that Partition would be solved if we continue with our application for full membership if Britain is refused or withdraws?
This is obviously becoming an argument.
In that hypothetical event, it is quite obvious that before we make up our minds as to our own policy, we must take all considerations into account.
Is it not a fact that when the Taoiseach made a statement to visiting journalists, who might not have as much knowledge of the position as those of us who live here, he was trying to create the impression that Ireland had an independent, viable economy—independent of Britain—and that it would be possible for us to go forward with our application for membership if Britain had to withdraw, when in fact he knew that to be complete rubbish?
That is clearly argumentative, not a question.
10.
andMr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach whether he has seen the statement in a report on the 23rd instant attributed to the Minister for External Affairs that the Constitution will require no change at all if Ireland's application to join the EEC is accepted; and whether this statement represents the Government's considered interpretation of the position.
The newspaper report which the Deputies evidently have in mind mistranslated, from the German text, the statement of the Minister for External Affairs to which the Deputies refer.
What the Minister actually said was that the Constitution may not need any amendment if our application for membership of the European Economic Community is accepted.
11.
andMr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach whether he intends to put the matter of Ireland's proposed membership of the Common Market for consideration and decision by the Irish people by way of referendum in the light of his recent statement that Ireland is now prepared to accept membership for political and defence purposes in addition to economic reasons.
I would refer the Deputies to my reply to a similar question addressed by them to me in this House on the 14th February last.
In view of a reported statement on to-day's paper, attributed to the Taoiseach last night, that he believes 99 per cent. of the people of this country are behind him in giving up our neutrality, would he not agree that the position is that 99 per cent. of the people are not aware of the implications involved in what the Taoiseach is doing or has been doing in Germany in the past week?
What I said last night was that 99 per cent. of the people agree with my view that this country is anti-Communist and will remain anti-Communist.
And would give up their neutrality?
Is it not a fact that it is possible for Ireland to pursue a non-commital policy as 45 other nations in the world have done; and is it not further a fact that the Taoiseach has advocated in the United Nations that there should not be an extension of the cold war and that he is now proposing to extend that cold war by bringing in Ireland and involving Ireland? Is it not completely hypocritical?
There is no doubt that this Christian country is and will remain to be completely antagonistic to the Communist concept, no matter what Deputy Dr. Browne may think about it.
Sanctimonious humbug.
And everybody knows it.
The Taoiseach did not tell the ex-Taoiseach up in the Park that he was going to do away with neutrality.
On a point of order. Deputy Lenihan has called myself a Red. That has been ruled as out of order on another occasion and I would ask the Ceann Comhairle to rule again.
He is not colour blind anyway.
I did not hear any unparliamentary expression.
I heard the Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy Lenihan, on two occasions within the last minute and a half describing Deputy Dr. Browne as a Red.
If epithets are thrown across from bench to bench, I cannot prevent that. I can prevent only what I hear.
It would appear the acoustics have not been improved sufficiently, after all, to enable you to hear what has been said.
If the cap fits, wear it.