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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Dec 1962

Vol. 198 No. 8

Order of Business.

Business, as set out in the Order Paper, will be taken in the following order: Nos. 1 to 5 inclusive, 18—Votes 45 and 45—8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18—Vote 40—, 17, 18—Votes 6, 18 and 13—. It is proposed to take Motions Nos. 48, 54 and 55 in conjunction with Vote 45. Private Members' Business will be taken from 6 to 7.30 p.m. If Vote 40 finishes before 10.30 p.m., it is proposed to continue until 10.30 p.m. on Nos. 17 and 18—Votes 6, 18 and 13. If Vote 40 does not finish before 10.30 p.m., it is proposed to sit after 10.30 p.m. only to take Vote 40 and to adjourn when it is finished and, in any event, to sit not later than midnight.

As the House is aware, motions Nos. 48, 54 and 55 will be taken with Vote No. 45. Private Members' Business will be taken between 6 p.m. and 7.30 p.m. It is proposed that the House should sit late this evening, until midnight, if necessary, to complete the business down to and including the Supplementary Estimate dealing with Forestry, No. 40. If the remaining business, that is, Nos. 17 and 18, the remaining Estimates, is not completed at 10.30 p.m. it will be carried over to next session. If the rest of the business is completed today, it is proposed to devote the whole of the time to-morrow from 10.30 a.m. to 5 p.m. to a debate on the Motion for the Adjournment.

I am not quite clear about the Forestry Estimate. If we get to the Forestry Estimate by 10.30 p.m., we do not go on after 10.30 p.m.?

If we complete the Forestry Estimate by 10.30 p.m., we do not go on.

But we go on to 12 o'clock to complete Forestry?

If we sit beyond 10.30 p.m. to complete Forestry we stop when Forestry has been disposed of?

Is there any possibility of starting the Adjournment Debate if the business is finished because otherwise the time allowed for tomorrow is rather short if many Deputies wish to speak.

It will be long enough.

Many Deputies want to get home.

Did the Taoiseach state the time for the Adjournment Debate tomorrow would be from 10.30 to 5 o'clock?

I take it Questions will be on in the ordinary way?

That is right—2.30 p.m.

It will probably be 3.30 p.m. or 4 p.m. before they finish. How many will there be?

As far as I know, there are not many.

Nobody knows how long the debate tomorrow may take. It might collapse, but, on the other hand, there might be a number of speakers who wish to discuss some of the important issues involved in the Taoiseach's Estimate. Would it be possible for the Taoiseach to reconsider the matter sometime tomorrow say, at 12 or 1 p.m. with a view to continuing later, if necessary?

I think the majority of Deputies wish to adjourn tomorrow at 5 p.m.

It is also the view of Deputies that, if possible, part of the Adjournment Debate should be taken this evening because there will be no time——

The Adjournment Debate may be resumed on 22nd January.

Is it not a fact that there is no Supplementary Estimate for the Taoiseach's Department?

No; it is a debate on the motion for the Adjournment.

The Opposition asked for a debate on the Adjournment. If the business scheduled ends before 10.30 p.m. tonight, presumably that debate will thereupon begin. If it does not, we have agreed to start it at 10.30 tomorrow and devote the whole day to it.

If the business up to and including Forestry should be completed at 10.30, we take the remainder of the business—the other Estimates—but if we go beyond 10.30, they go to the next session.

Is it the intention that the Taoiseach will get in to reply tomorrow at a certain time?

Four o'clock.

Does that not cut down the time? If the time for Questions is taken into account there will be a very limited time for what is normally the annual debate at the end of every session.

The Dáil is adjourning for only four weeks.

It is a review of the situation here and surely the Taoiseach——

It is a matter of letting off some steam so that Deputies can enjoy their Christmas.

That is a very cheap remark on the part of the Taoiseach. This is the only chance that is being given for discussion of Government policy prior to the Christmas recess. There will be no opportunity for such a discussion after Christmas.

Ample opportunity.

There is no provision made in the business after Christmas for a special discussion such as the debate we seek. Is it unreasonable at this stage to say that at 2 o'clock to-morrow or 2.30 at Question Time he would have a good idea how the debate was going and that if a number of Deputies wish to speak who would be prevented by this 4 o'clock closure, he should allow the debate to continue.

I think Deputies wish to know definitely the arrangements, and the arrangements are that the Dáil will adjourn at 5 o'clock.

I protest against that. This House has often sat later and there is nothing wrong with asking Deputies to sit here until Friday.

Let us get this clear. If all the business as ordered is completed by 10.30 p.m., the debate on the motion for the Adjournment may start?

Yes, if all the business as ordered is finished at 10.30 p.m.

Whether he would be the sole speaker from the Government benches.

I shall try to restrain my colleagues.

The Tánaiste will be locked up, in other words.

On previous occasions, certain members hogged the whole debate and other members could not get in at all. Is it not possible to limit the time Deputies will have to speak so that any Deputy who wishes to speak will have an opportunity of doing so?

How many hours does the Deputy take when he speaks?

With due respect to other members of the Cabinet, surely the Taoiseach is the most important person in the Cabinet and his Estimate——

It might surprise the Deputy to know that Government Deputies have the same rights in this House as he has.

I am not suggesting that they should not have.

The Deputy seems to be trying to deprive them of it.

The Taoiseach should not get so excited about this. We are merely trying to come to an amicable arrangement to discuss the most important Estimate that comes before the House.

It is not an Estimate.

The Dáil will adjourn for four weeks and this is our only opportunity before the recess to discuss the activities of the Taoiseach's Department over the previous months. Surely if we were not restricted in our time in discussing the Department of Transport and Power or any of the other Government Departments, we should not be restricted in the time which we have to discuss the Taoiseach's Estimate.

If all the business ends to night at 10.30 p.m., does the Debate start tonight?

If all the business is concluded by 10.30 p.m., which is most unlikely, we shall start on the debate.

Supposing we finish at 10.30 p.m. do we adjourn at 10.30 or does the debate start?

If the business ordered is finished at 10.30 p.m. down to and including Forestry, then we adjourn at 10.30 p.m.

Late sitting agreed.

Ordered: That the Dáil sit later than 11 p.m. today and that the hour at which business is to be interrupted be 12 midnight.
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