Tá a lán rudaí tábhachtacha sa mhéid a dúirt an tAire nuair a thug sé an Meastachán isteach agus tá áthas orm mar gheall ar chuid des na rudaí a dúirt sé, bíodh go bhfuil a lán rudaí nár dhein sé tagairt dóibh. Pé scéal é, tá tosnú déanta aige agus caithimíd é a mholadh mar gheall ar an méid atá déanta agus an méid atá á dhéanamh aige maille le oideachas.
Chím go bhfuil níos mó airgid ar fáil le h-aghaidh oideachais. Chím go bhfuil níos mó scoláireachtaí le fáil ag buachaillí agus ag cailíní agus, chómh maith leis sin, chím go bhfuil sár-obair á déanamh ag an Aire maille le tithe scoile. Is cuimhin liom, agus mé fén dtuaith fadó, nach raibh againn in a lán áiteanna ach scioból. Tá obair mhaith á déanamh ag an Aire chun scoileanna oiriúnacha a sholáthair. Bhí a lán cainte le cloisint anseo mar gheall ar na ranganna a bheith ro-mhór. Níor tógadh an Róimh i lá amháin. Ní féidir leis an Aire ceist na ranganna móra a leigheas taobh istigh de bhliain nó dhó.
Tá a lán rudaí ar mhaith liom go ndéanfadh an tAire tagairt dóibh nár lua sé agus an Meastachán á thuirt isteach aige, ach, mar sin fhéin, tá a fhios agam go bhfuil sár-obair á déanamh aige. Tá a fhios agam nach bhfuil aige féin an chumhacht ar fad. An Roinn Airgeadais atá ciontach ina lán rudaí, ach, ag tagairt dóibh súd, ní mór dom a rá go bhfuil a lán á dhéanamh acu i mbliana agus rinne siad a lán rudaí anuraidh.
Ba mhaith liom leanúint i nGaeilge. Is ceart dúinn go léir gan ach an Ghaeilge a labhairt sa Tí seo ach ní thuigeann 80 faoin gcéad nó níos mó de thuismitheoirí focal Ghaeilge agus, dá bhrí sin, ní mór dúinn labhairt sa teangan a thuigeann siad mar is acu san ba cheart fios a bheith maidir le cúrsaí oideachais sa tír.
As I have said, there are some very important matters that have not been touched upon by the Minister in introducing the Estimate. In our system of education, there are three water-tight compartments—primary education, vocational education and secondary education. In my view, we should have a fully integrated system with easy access from one branch of education to the other.
At present there are a number of teachers in primary schools who would be more suited to either vocational or secondary schools. Therefore it would appear to me that there is great waste, that better results could be obtained for the money expended, to the benefit of pupils generally.
There is a certain amount of integration in schools run by religious orders. Some of the religious commence teaching in the primary school and then proceed to the university and, having got a degree, can transfer to the secondary school. That does not apply in the case of lay teachers. A lay primary teacher who transfers to a secondary school cannot have service in the primary school reckoned for salary and pension purposes. I would ask the Minister to consider that suggestion. It would be of advantage to education generally.
I cannot understand why there is an objection, or who objects, to the primary teacher having university training. I understand that in the case of non-Catholics, the primary teachers receive part of their training in Trinity College, Dublin. I do not know why the same system should not apply in the case of Catholics. It would be of great advantage to the pupils. A person does get something at university that he can bring back to the children he teaches. There was a time when people of high authority would suggest that there was no necessity to have graduates engaged in primary schools in order to teach children their tables. In my view, it is very necessary that attendance at a university should form some part of the training of primary teachers, even if it means extending the period of training by a year so that instead of a two-year course, it would be a three-year course, at the end of which the teacher would have a degree. Such a system would facilitate the integration of the branches of education which is so very necessary. I would ask the Minister seriously to consider that suggestion.
In my view, the school-leaving age should be raised within the next couple of years to at least 15 years. I suppose 30 per cent or 40 per cent of Irish children do not go beyond the primary school. I do not think there is any comparison between the standard that was achieved in the primary school prior to 1922 and the standard achieved now. One would not expect that the standards would be comparable. A new subject was introduced into the schools—our national language—and children are taught that for such a length of time every day. How could it be expected that, with the introduction of that new subject, the standard could or would reach the standard of the primary school pre-1922? People who state that the standard today is as high as ever it was really do not understand the position. They must have looked at some of the big city schools where the brighter children are selected for scholarships, and so on.
The larger percentage of our primary schools are one-teacher and two-teacher schools. Children leaving a great number of our schools at the age of 14 have nowadays a sufficient knowledge of neither English nor Irish to go out into the world. Things have changed very much in this country in the past 40 or 50 years. Today, education must be of a higher standard than ever before. Therefore, that section of our children who do not go beyond the primary school are not suited for the world today and we realise that fact only too well when they leave this country because they are not fitted to take up positions which they might otherwise be able to hold.
I would ask the Minister to bring the school-leaving age up to 15 years. There is the difficulty of school buildings and of getting trained teachers but I know what the Minister is doing and what he has done. The success of the international competitions was due entirely to him. If he takes the matter in hand, I know he will do something to the advantage of the children I have been speaking for and I appeal to him to do something about raising the school-leaving age. Across the water, I understand the school-leaving age is 15 years and that by 1970 it will be raised for all to 16 years. Therefore, I appeal to the Minister, if at all possible within the next few years, to insist that every child must attend school up to the age of 15 years.
I was very pleased to note the improvement in our school buildings. I have seen grand schools built which were beautiful-looking structures for the first year or so. Then, after a few years they were a disgrace for want of paint. When Deputy Corish asked a question about these matters, somebody asked him if it was an attack on the managerial system. There is no teacher in Ireland—and I was one of them all my life—who wants any system other than the managerial system but wanting it and having it is one thing. Take the expense and the upkeep of the primary school, whether heating, cleaning, and the rest of it. That should not devolve altogether on the management. There are poor parishes where managers find it difficult enough to keep their parishes going. Further money by way of grants should be given to the managers. I note it is being done for the painting and interior decoration of schools. The amount of money for heating and cleaning is very small and it is not sufficient for the heating.
I understand that in some parts of the country the children sweep out the school. If the Minister knows of any place where that happens, I would ask him to issue a direct order that it cease immediately. As in the vocational schools, there should be a person to clean the schools at stated times and to light the fires and have everything in order when the children go into the school.
The Minister has done a great job as far as vocational schools are concerned. It is very urgent that there should be more of them. Quite a number have been established in different areas but we badly need more. If a boy or girl does not go any farther than the primary school, the education he receives is not sufficient for the world of today. It is essential that our boys and girls in the vocational schools obtain the group certificate so that they may become apprentices and learn a trade. Consider the position of our people down through the years who have had to emigrate. For the want of a trade, they had to carry the hod for every foreigner. I am glad something is being done in that matter.
There are just a few minor matters to which I should like to refer. In regard to school texts, I understand that it very often happens that one or two chapters are added to a textbook and the book is issued as a new text, which imposes a further expense on the parents. Both in the primary and secondary schools, the cost of books is very high and where a large family is going to school, it is very important that such expenses should be kept as low as possible. I would ask the Minister to have his Department look into that matter.
Another point is that I cannot understand why in our college of commerce, boys and girls may go for their Leaving Certificate but cannot take Latin for a subject. If they want Latin, they must go outside to study it. I would ask the Minister to rectify that position as soon as possible because these boys and girls being educated for the Leaving Certificate should be in a position to have Latin taught to them there. I mentioned this matter a year ago on this Estimate but there does not seem to have been any improvement in the position.
I also maintain that the rudiments of civics should be taught in every primary school and that in the vocational school and in the secondary school, there should be a proper course of civics, a subject which is very necessary at present. I hope something can be done in this regard. Deputy O'Donnell referred to a matter about which I have thought for many years, having taught in a two-teacher school for years. It is not possible for a teacher in a two-teacher school, no matter how excellent, to give the pupils the same advantages as the pupils in a larger school receive, say, a city school where there is one teacher to one class. If you take the ordinary two-teacher school, the assistant has infants, first and second class, and the principal has third class, fourth class, fifth class, sixth class and often the seventh class. He cannot give those children the same high standard as can be given in the larger city schools.
Therefore I would ask the Minister if it would be possible to have parish lay schools in which one school in a parish might have five, six or seven teachers and where there would be one teacher to one class. This would be to the advantage of the children in rural parts and we must consider these children as well as the children in the city schools. There might be some objections to this but my interest is to see that the children will get the benefit of it.
At present secondary schools are, if you like, in private hands, but nevertheless some moneys should be given to the people in charge of them in the matter of building schools. Side by side with that, we should have a number of lay secondary schools. That is very important because up to the present our secondary schools have been found wanting in mathematics, modern languages and science. The Minister has made some impovement in this matter.
I do not propose to discuss the Irish language because I expect that in due course a day or two will be devoted in the Dáil to discussing the report of the Commission on the language. It is very necessary that irrespective of our political affiliations, we should have an opportunity to discuss our language, how best it can be revived and how best to get the people speaking it as they spoke it in years gone by. I am looking forward to the day when this will be discussed.
I congratulate the Minister sincerely on what he has done and what he is doing. It was a pleasure for some of us connected with vocational education in this city to have been present at the international competition for apprentices at which we had boys from places as distant as Japan. It was grand to see children of our own schools being able to compete. I should like to say that it would not have been possible to have had such a success if it had not been for the Minister and it is only fair that he should be thanked.