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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 20 Oct 1965

Vol. 218 No. 1

Adjournment Debate. - Agricultural Credit Corporation Loans.

(Cavan): At Question Time today I asked the Minister for Finance to take immediate steps to put the Agricultural Credit Corporation in funds to enable them to give and discharge the loans offered by them to farmers during the past 12 months, where the borrowers have entered into commitments on the strength of the said offers and where the borrowers are prepared and anxious to take up the loans. I expected the Minister to give me an assurance that he would accede to my reasonable request, but he did not see fit to do so. I, therefore, raise the matter now on the Adjournment.

For some years past the Agricultural Credit Corporation have been lending money freely for various purposes, including the purchase of land. The Agricultural Credit Corporation were, in fact, encouraged to lend money and farmers were encouraged to borrow money for various purposes. In the letter granting the loan there was a stipulation that the loan should be taken up within three months. The Minister, in his experience as a lawyer, knows as well as I do that such a stipulation in a contract, specifying any special time for doing something, is never literally interpreted by the courts unless and until it is made the essence of the contract by a special notice in writing.

In fact—and I believe the Agricultural Credit Corporation will so inform the Minister — this three months' stipulation was never insisted upon and never acted upon. Rarely, if ever, was the loan taken up within the three months. Lest it might be said I exaggerate, I say, without fear of contradiction, that quite frequently the loan was not taken up within the three months, but it was nevertheless granted. Frequently, indeed, it was impossible for borrowers to take up the loan within three months because the title of their security, or some of their security, was not in order and it required a court application to put the title in order. Very often the court application could not be made inside the three months. The Probate Office, the Land Commission, the Land Registry, and other Government Departments were involved and that made it impossible for the borrower to put his title speedily in order and take up the loan within the three months.

The important thing, however, from the point of view of my argument, is the fact that the Agricultural Credit Corporation did not insist on the loan being taken up within three months and it was quite reasonable then for borrowers and borrowers' advisers to proceed on the basis that this stipulation was not a hard and fast rule and would not be arbitrarily enforced. However, like a bolt from the blue, in July last the Agricultural Credit Corporation, without notice of any kind, started insisting on the letter of this three months' stipulation, enforcing it strictly and literally. The result has been many cases of hardship.

For instance, farmers bought small adjacent farms—aye, and big farms too—of land beside them and entered into binding contracts to purchase these farms on the strength of the offer of a loan from the Agricultural Credit Corporation. They went further. They paid deposits on these farms. Some of them sold their own smaller farms, entering into binding contracts, in the hope of buying larger farms with the assistance of the loan which had been sanctioned. Other farmers paid deposits out of their own pockets or persuaded friends to advance them money on a temporary basis until such time as the Agricultural Credit Corporation loan would come through. These serious financial commitments were entered into on the strength of a letter from the Agricultural Credit Corporation that they were prepared to make these loans.

I can give examples of loans which were sanctioned and cancelled within a short time: a loan for £1,900 sanctioned on 24th May, 1965, and cancelled on 31st August 1965. In that case an application to the court was necessary and that application could not be made until November. Another loan for £2,500 was sanctioned on 31st May and cancelled on 3rd September. A loan for £1,200 was sanctioned on 25th February and cancelled on 5th August last. In that case probate was necessary and a sub-division involving two Government Departments.

I maintain the Agricultural Credit Corporation have broken faith with their borrowers. They have done so through no fault of their own. On the direction of the Government, and as a matter of Government policy, they encouraged people to borrow money; they subsequently cancelled these loans, again on the direction of the Government and as a matter of Government policy.

I say that the Government should now put the Agricultural Credit Corporation in funds to enable that body to discharge loans to farmers in cases where farmers have entered into serious commitments on the strength of these loans. They did so in the belief—a belief encouraged by their advisers—that this three months was a mere formality. It was stated the Agricultural Credit Corporation would lend money to buy land. They would lend money only for productive purposes. As a Deputy asked here today, was there anything more calculated to increase productivity and thereby add to the wealth of the nation than a progressive farmer buying a derelict farm next door, a farm which had lain idle for years, and putting that land into good heart to produce wealth for the nation? In each of the cases I have mentioned that is what would have happened had the loan been forthcoming. How the Government could pretend such loans were not for productive purposes I do not know.

I undertook to allow Deputy Harte to speak on this matter and I propose to give him time. I am not playing politics here. I am asking the Government to enable the Agricultural Credit Corporation to keep faith with the borrowers. It would be a sad day for this country if the people could not do business with a State-sponsored, State-financed organisation on this basis of being able to rely on the assurances given them by that body.

It is very doubtful whether the cancelling of loans without due notice would stand up to a test case in court. However, I do not see why any farmer should be put to the expense of bringing a case against the Agricultural Credit Corporation. I say the Corporation are not entitled, as a matter of law, to adhere strictly to this three months' notice without first making it of the essence of the contract by serving a special notice. They have not done that in this case. Without any warning at all, they just cancelled the loans. It is significant that they thought fit in each case to send out a notice cancelling the loan. They did not take the chance of relying simply on the three months' notice and saying it had lapsed. If they thought they were on strong ground and had the force of law behind them to avail of that three months' notice, they should hardly have sent out notices cancelling the loans. They did not send out a letter saying the loan had lapsed, but sent out a letter saying the loan had been cancelled.

I appeal to the Minister to relieve cases of great hardship throughout the length and breadth of the country which have been brought about by a drastic change in Government policy without any previous notice to the people concerned, who had involved themselves in heavy financial commitments on the strength of promises from a State-sponsored organisation.

I would like to support Deputy Fitzpatrick in this. Like every other Deputy, I have had constituents coming to me telling their bitter stories about applying to the Agricultural Credit Corporation for a loan to buy fertiliser, livestock, farm implements and machinery, farm buildings and indeed farm land lying convenient to their holdings. They were told by the Corporation that their applications were granted and they then committed themselves, their friends or their families only to be told at a later date that the Corporation were dishonouring their promise to advance the money.

This is the first opportunity Deputies on this side of the House have had of exposing this matter publicly. I had occasion to raise the same matter at a county council meeting in Donegal. It appears that whenever a person in public life tells the people exactly what is happening members of the Fianna Fáil Party at local government level get up to defend State bodies such as the Agricultural Credit Corporation. Without naming people, one particular Deputy defied me to bring forward one case of any constituent of mine being refused money. This is like pulling a red herring across one's path. Every Deputy and every member of a local authority knows that all these things are sacrosanct and confidential, and it would be bad taste on the part of public representatives to bring them forward at a public meeting to prove a point. Surely it is proof enough that a public representative seeks to expose these matters since he does so for a genuine reason?

At the same meeting a Fianna Fáil Senator said in defence of the Agricultural Credit Corporation that he had personal knowledge of a veterinary surgeon who applied for money to buy a Mercedes car and got it. I would like to know who this gentleman was, what cumann he belonged to and what he has done for the Fianna Fáil Party. It is a despicable thing that a member of such a profession, a profession in which he can earn his living——

We are dealing with a particular matter concerning the activity or non-activity of the Agricultural Credit Corporation.

With respect, Sir——

With respect, the Deputy will hear me. What Deputies and Senators do at a county council meeting does not arise here.

I was only using it to explain my point.

There is no use in trying to do that. The Deputy will confine himself to the matter of the question.

When I mentioned the matter today at Question Time, the Minister for Finance said it was quite permissible for the Agricultural Credit Corporation to advance such money.

I did not say that.

I think the Minister is on record as having said it.

I shall quote it when I am replying. I do not want to interrupt the Deputy.

I may have misunderstood the Minister. I thought he said it was the practice of the Agricultural Credit Corporation to do so. Surely a responsible body such as this Corporation should see, even without a credit squeeze, it is bad practice to advance money to buy Mercedes cars and refuse farmers when they apply for as little as £100 for productive purposes? This is the point that requiries to be explained to the House.

I remember in the Spring when the Government said they were giving the green light to the Agricultural Credit Corporation to advance £4 million to farmers. I do not doubt that the Corporation accepted that in good faith and went ahead. I can imagine the situation in the Corporation when people applied for loans. Their security was examined and passed and they were told the money was there, to go ahead and spend it. The Corporation were satisfied from the history of the applicants that they could use the money for productive purposes, thus adding in their small way to the economy of the nation. This was the pattern all along, until one fine morning the Minister for Finance was told by the banks that they had no money. The Minister therefore could not give money to the Agricultural Credit Corporation and the Corporation, in turn, could not honour their promises to small farmers.

While I am in no position to say exactly what happened, I think that is the case. The blame for this lies not with the Agricultural Credit Corporation but with the Government. The Government by their definite policy have misled the nation, and these people who find themselves in such jeopardy, into believing there was plenty of credit available. At the same time, by the implementation of other policies, such as the corporation profits tax, they forced people to withdraw money from the banks with the result that the banks have no money to advance to the Government.

I now call on the Minister.

Likewise the position is that these people are asked——

Before the Minister stands up, may I ask him——

The Minister is entitled to ten minutes.

There is a minute on both clocks.

I get only ten minutes.

There are 11 minutes left on both clocks.

I should like to put the position of the capital and public capital programme into proper perspective so that I can deal with this situation properly. The public capital programme, that is, the capital needed for expenditure on such things as housing, hospitals, schools, industrial grants, electricity, turf development, shipping, telephones, and so on, as well as for agriculture, rose from a total figure of £44 million in 1959/60 to £98 million in 1964/65, that is last year.

It was to be expected that having regard to the economic activity projected in the Programmes for Economic Expansion, and to a large extent generated by those programmes, there would be a vast increase in the amount of capital expended on those programmes. It was envisaged in the Second programme that this figure would level off, taking one year with another, at £95 million. In fact, as I pointed out, £98 million was expended last year, and the revised estimate for capital programme for the current year will be of the order of £100 million. The break-down of that figure will be published in detail in the White Paper which was promised and which I expect will be published next week.

That figure of £100 million, as Deputies can see, is in excess of the £98 million expended last, in excess of the £95 million which it was envisaged would be the order of capital expansion in the years immediately ahead for the remainder of the Second Programme for Economic Expansion, and considerably in excess of the figure for capital expenditure in the past six or seven years.

My function as Minister for Finance is to ensure that sufficient capital will be available to service a programme of this order. We had to rely, by and large, on the savings of the people, the savings of the people as made available in the national loans through the banks, and through superannuation schemes and otherwise, as well as what is called the autonomous inflow of capital, that is, capital invested by foreigners in this country in certain schemes such as factory buildings and otherwise, on their own volition. The latter was growing in the past but due to the credit restrictions throughout the world, in the current year there was a falling off on this figure which stood at about £16 million three years ago, £22 million two years ago, and which rose to about £35 million last year. The amount of autonomous capital inflow offset the balance of payments difficulties which had arisen then.

Having regard to this difficulty, to this world shortage of credit, and the limitation imposed on the inflow of capital from countries like Great Britain and the United States, by the Governments of those countries, it was found necessary in this country this year, in order to supplement the capital available from home sources and others, to seek a loan abroad, and the best advice available to us was that the amount we could confidently expect to get was of the order of £7 million.

As Deputies will appreciate there is a considerable drawing, considerable demand, on this total of £100 million. Capital spending Departments and agencies—of which the Agricultural Credit Corporation is one—all make demands on the amount of capital that is available and these demands, as in the case of current expenditure by Departments, are often in excess of what can be afforded and, indeed, in some cases, what is likely to be spent. So, as in the case of current expenditure by Departments, the capital requirements, as expressed in the original estimates by Departments, have to be pruned. This pruning was done this year, as in other years, but it was found that the sums required were still considerably in excess of the £100 million.

It is important to ensure that when capital demands are made and come up for payment, we are in a position to make the payments on foot of the debts properly due, for example, by way of contract buildings. In order then to ensure that sufficient capital would be available for all the various purposes—for housing, schools, electricity, transport and for all the items of demand on the availability of capital—we had to go through the capital requirements again and at this stage the figure of Capital Budget as published for the Agricultural Credit Corporation, stood at £4¾ million. That figure was looked at again on the basis of the figure supplied by the Agricultural Credit Corporation of commitments made and loans actually advanced in the first part of the year and it was estimated that a sum of the order of £4 million which is less than the figure which appeared in the Capital Budget would suffice. It must be said that the figure of £4 million was based on an examination—not a close examination because time did not permit at that stage of such a close examination—by the Agricultural Credit Corporation of the commitments that had been entered into. However, following closer examination by the Agricultural Credit Corporation of their requirements for purely productive purposes—and purely productive purposes had of necessity to exclude loans for land purchase and fundings of bank debts and for hire purchase: and there was a considerable degree of hire purchase of motor cars, not confined to veterinary surgeons alone——

Does the Minister agree that a Mercedes car——

I do not know anything about Mercedes cars. At this stage I told the Agricultural Credit Corporation that they should cease to lend money for those purposes.

(Cavan): Will the Minister agree that the Agricultural Credit Corporation were encouraged by him——

I have only two minutes left to conclude——

(Cavan): The Minister has not replied to one part of the question.

Having regard to this new figure submitted by the Agricultural Credit Corporation and after a joint examination of the figures by the Minister for Agriculture, representatives of the Agricultural Corporation and myself I decided to put the Agricultural Credit Corporation in funds to the extent of their estimated commitments for productive purposes to the figure of £5¼ million for the current year. I want to say that to this sum of £5¼ million must be added the sum of almost £14 million which was provided for the capital requirements of the Department of Agriculture generally bringing the figure available out of the Capital Budget for agricultural purposes to almost £20 million or 20 per cent of the total Capital Budget of £100 million. To this must be added the fact that the banks have been considerably increasing their loans for agricultural purposes bringing the figure which stood at £28 million in July, 1959 to £56 million in July, 1965.

The Minister should answer the question on the Order Paper.

We have tailored our disbursements to the amount of capital moneys available and £100 million is being made available this year which is considerably in excess of any sum made available in previous years.

(Cavan): Why encourage people to borrow money?

Why not tell the people the truth?

That is the truth.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 21st October, 1965.

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