Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Two-Teacher Schools. – Dáil Éireann (18th Dáil) – Thursday, 21 Oct 1965

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

asked the Minister for Education if he will state the Government's policy in relation to two-teacher and small schools in the country so as to clear up any misunderstanding in regard to this matter.

I would refer the Deputy to my statement to the House on this matter on the 21st July last. I would like to amplify that statement by giving the Deputy some of the detailed reasons which impelled me to endeavour, wherever feasible, to replace one and two-teacher schools by larger schools:

1. We have in this State about 730 one-teacher schools.

2. A very high proportion of them are staffed by untrained teachers, the reason for this being that qualified teachers are generally loath to take a post in a one-teacher school.

3. With the coming and going of teachers many of them are left without any teacher for considerable periods each year.

4. A general survey of the attainment of the pupils in these schools has disclosed that on average they are educationally about two years behind pupils being taught in larger schools.

5. Educationists generally are agreed that the burden of trying to cope with all classes from infants to 6th or 7th is, except in the very odd case, too great for any teacher.

6. This is all the more so where the teacher is untrained and unqualified.

7. While the degree of lack of attainment in two-teacher schools is naturally not as great as in the case of one-teacher schools, nevertheless the same general considerations apply.

8. As regards social considerations, it is very unlikely that parents, steadily growing as they are in social awareness, will much longer continue to live contentedly in areas where there are not ample educational opportunities for their children. Lack of such opportunities rather than any question of allowing small schools to continue will, it is to be feared, be the main reason for the disappearance of communities in these areas.

9. The provision of suitable transport for school children is no longer the problem that it was in former times.

10. Throughout a large part of the world school transport services are a very big feature in catering for the education of children from areas of lesser population and are regarded as one of the basic amenities being provided for these areas.

11. The time when it was necessary to have schools at a distance of a few miles apart is now past.

12. A proliferation of small schools means that in relation to the instruction he can give the teacher is serving in conditions where his services are least effective.

The result of this policy, as I see it, is that in rural areas generally very many of the one and two-teacher schools would be replaced by three-teacher schools and that in areas of greater population central schools with four or more teachers would be provided. This would mean that the educational facilities for children in rural areas would be very much improved.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

Might I ask if the Minister has sought the advice of the school managers in this connection and if the Hierarchy have expressed an opinion on it and whether he considers that in a remote rural area the school, whether a one- or two-roomed structure, is the centre of activity? How does he expect local small farmers to uproot themselves or have their children sent four or five miles to a town if there is a local school under the jurisdiction of a good manager with a capable teacher in charge? Can he justify the closing of a school of that kind?

Mr. Colley

The Deputy's supplementary is a complex one. As regards consultation with the school managers, the Catholic Clerical Managers Association some time ago concurred in the closing of one-teacher schools. In regard to two-teacher schools, any time the question of closing one arises the manager is consulted and the area in question is examined, including the places of residence of pupils and the feasibility of providing transport services as well as any other relevant factor. All are taken into account before any decision is made. The Deputy asked if I had had any decision from the Hierarchy. The answer is no.

The Deputy also suggested that there was some question of uprooting people. I do not quite follow his argument here. It seems to me that where children are being provided with transport virtually free—free for a distance of about four or five miles—there cannot be any question of uprooting the children and certainly not of uprooting the parents. The allegation that the small school forms the central core of the community does not bear examination since the vast majority are not looking to the school for any purpose other than schooling and it has no social significance in the community and is not used for any community purpose. The basic consideration is the education of the children. There seems no doubt at all among educationists that it is in the interest of the children as far as possible to have one teacher for each class. This seems self-evident. We cannot attain that ideal but we can try to get as near to it as possible. I referred to the statement I made on 21st July. The debate is not yet available in the printed Official Report but when it becomes available I think the Deputy will be very interested to read it and the comments by members of his Party.

Mr. P. Hogan (South Tipperary) rose.

Two Teacher Schools in Leix-Offaly

Name and Address of School	Parish	Enrolment quarter ended 30/9/65
Shanganamore N.S., Athy	Athy	78.1
Ballinakill B. Ballinakill	Ballinakill	61.7
Ballinakill G.	Ballinakill	64.3
Castletown G. Mountrath	Castletown	58.6
Rushes, Arles, Ballickmoyler	Arles	45.1
Ballaghmore, Borris-in-Ossory	Kyle	40.8
Kilbricken, Mountrath	Mountrath	32.7
Vicarstown, Portlaoise	Stradbally	42.6
Mountmellick Parochial Mountmellick	Under Church of Ireland Management	33.1
Castlefleming, Erill, Portlaoise	Under Church of Ireland Management	25.8
Rush Hall, Mixed, Portlaoise	Castletown	66.5
Offerlane N.S., Coolrain, Portlaoise	Under Church of Ireland Management	29.6
Paddock, Baile Chaisleán, Portlaoise	Castletown	48.2
Emo Mixed, Portlaoise	Emo	57.3
Rath Mixed, Ballybrittas, Portlaoise	Emo	73
St. Canice's Boys, Borris-in-Ossory	Borris-in-Ossory	39.4
Abbeyleix South, Abbeyleix	Under Church of Ireland Management	50.4
Maryboro, Portlaoise	Under Church of Ireland Management	33.9
Briscoli, Mountrath, Portlaoise	Ballyfin	31.8
Oak, Portlaoise	Mountrath	37.9
Trummera, Mountrath	Mountrath	35.1
S.N. Baile Finn, Portlaoise	Ballyfin	58.5
Cloch an tSionnaigh, Ballacolla, Abbeyleix	Aghaboe	38.1
Knockaroo, Borris-in-Ossory	Borris-in-Ossory	33.7
Clonad, Portlaoise	Raheen	28.5
S.N. Cluainin, Mountrath	Camross	42
Aughnahila, Stradbally	Portlaoise	28.5
Clonaghadoo, Kilcavan, Geashill, Co. Offaly	Mountmellick	83.8
Ballyadams, Ballylinan, Athy	Ballyadams	81.6
Raheen, Abbeyleix	Raheen	49
St. Canice's, Aghaboe	Aghaboe	29.2
Cill an Inbhair, Mountrath	Camross	59.5
Sc. Raethre, Ros Fionnglaise	Rosenallis	45
Sc. Mhuire (Muigheo), Crettyard, Carlow	Doonane	53.8
Sc. Mhuire (Cnocán na Mactire), Athy	Ballyadams	42
Fionntan Naofa (Seanchua), Mainistir Laoise	Raheen	70.5
Ros Fionnghaise, Rosenallis	Rosenallis	51
Sc. Abbain, Cillin, Magh Gainmhe	Arles	69
Raithin an Uisce, Portlaoise	Portlaoise	40.3
Padraig (Logan Chorráin), Sráid Bhaile	Ballyadams	42.2
Stradbally Boys'	Stradbally	93.8
Molaise an Cnoch, Mainistir Laoise	Ballinakill	47.6
Sc. na Mainistreach, Baile an Chaisleáin, Moin Ratha	Castletown	50.5
Sc. Chiaráin Naofa, Cráig an Drisigh, Rathdowney	Galmoy	40
Goirtín, Cullohill, P.L.	Durrow	36.5
Mhuire Naofa (Castlecuff), Clonaslee	Clonaslee	41.2
The Swan (An Croí Ró Naofa), Athy	Ballyadams	62.4
Cluain Eidhneach, Mountrath	Under Church of Ireland Management	36.2
Cúl an tSúdaire	Under Church of Ireland Management	42.6
Sc. na Carraige, Mountmellick	Mountmellick	35.3
Sc. Bhríde, Ard Duach, Carlow	Doonane	47.2
Naomh Pádraig, Doire Liaim Oig, Rosenallis	Rosenallis	32.5
Barr na Sruthán, Mountmellick	Ballyfin	47
Ardlios, Ballickmoyler	Arles	60
Faolán Naofa, Baile Uí Ruáin, P.L.	Abbeyleix	57.4
Naomh Colmcille, Airéill	Rathdowney	60.2
Naomh Fiontáin, Durrow	Durrow	66.8
Kilclonfert, An Cruacháin, Tullamore	Daingean	46.3
Naomh Eoin, An Ráth, Biorra	Eglish	29.0
Island Parish, Ballycumber	Killina	51.0
Ballyegan, Sharavogue, Roscrea	Kilcolman	62.0
Gortnamona, Tullamore	Kilcormac	53.0
Garr, Rhode	Ballinabrackey	38.7
Osmann, Birr	Under Church of Ireland Management	53.1
Geashill (1)	Killeigh	54.1
Charleville, Tullamore	Under Church of Ireland Management	34.6
Ciarán Naofa, Clareen, Birr	Seirkieran	69.0
St. Cronan's, Lusmagh, Banagher	Lusmagh	74.1
Leamore, Blueball, Tullamore	Tisaran	36.1
Gailinn, Féar Bán	Gallen	41.1
Coolderry, Brosna, Birr	Kilcolman	78.0
St. Manchan's, Srah, Ballycumber	Lemanaghan	47.2
Clonbulloge, Tullamore	Clonbulloge	61.6
Cloneyhurke, Portarlington	Portarlington	40.6
Eglish, Five Alley, Birr	Eglish	59.0
St. Ciaran's, Clonfanlough, Athlone	Clonmacnoise	54.0
Longford, Birr	Kinnitty	65.3
Cill Adhráin, Cill Achaid, Sinchill	Killeigh	65.3
Naomh Caillín, Roshina, Ballinahowen	Lemanaghan	44.2
Cartaigh Naofa, Rahan	Killian	44.0
Oilibhéar Ploingcéad, Shannonbridge	Clonmacnoise	52.0
Cormac Naofa, Kilcormac	Kilcormac	69.0
Cill Muire, Baile Coimhín, Ballinagar	Daingean	66.1
Seosamh Naofa, Ballynagar	Killeigh	79.5
Ciarán Naofa, Breac Coill, Kilcormac	Kilcormac	32.5
Cill Liadháin, Birr	Eglish	38.7
Muire, Cill Bhile	Roscrea	52.6
Peadar & Pól, Ath an Urchair, Moate	Clara	62.9
Scoil na mBuachaillí, Banagher	Gallen	69.4
Pádraig, Baile Bhriain, Fahy	Rhode	82.0
Caoimhín Naofa, Cluain Lisc, Shinrone	Shinrone	74.9
Gearr Bhaile, Banagher	Gallen	40.1
Bríde, Baile Buí, Kilcormac	Kilcormac	76.1
Ross Com Rua, Roscrea	Kinnity	75.3
Esker, Mount Lucal, Tullamore	Daingean	70.5
Naomh Iosef, Cluain Damhna	Gallen	39.8
Muire, Cúl an Áirne, Blueball	Kilcormac	47.8

TOTAL: 97 Schools.

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 21 Oct 1965