asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he will state the provisions of Finance Circular No. 4/59 which operate to prevent the Agricultural Wages Board from inserting a proposed date of operation in a draft order or draft amending order; and why a former chairman of the board, who was also a former Secretary of his Department, specifically brought this circular to the notice of the board when a proposal to insert an operative date in a draft order was mooted.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Agricultural Wages Order.
40.
The circular referred to does not operate as suggested by the Deputy. It dealt with the printing and publication of statutory instruments and the desirability, in relation to the requirements of the Statutory Instruments Acts, of giving reasonable prior notice of the date of coming into operation of an order of the kind in question to persons likely to be affected by it.
Is the Minister aware that the person referred to in the question did in fact advise the board that the interpretation was as I have given in my question and is it because it was Departmental policy, in his time, anyway, that he did that?
This circular was sent out to persons likely to be involved in this operation. The Agricultural Wages Board was included in the normal routine way and the circular was addressed to it the same as any other Departmental agency concerned. The circular simply drew attention to the desirability of publishing in the widest possible manner all orders and instruments likely to affect people. It went on to indicate that, where possible, two weeks should be allowed so that the instrument could be published in Iris Oifigiúil and everybody made aware of what was in the order or instrument concerned, the idea being that if people are to be made liable to penalties, they should at least know what is in the Statutory Instrument before they are made liable.
I am afraid the Minister does not understand. The draft order referred to is one which would not normally come into operation for two months. The suggestion was that when the draft order was submitted, the date should then be inserted, giving ample notice. But the former chairman of the board, who was a member of the Minister's staff, Chief Secretary, did, in fact, say there was no authority for doing that. Does the Minister now say there is authority for doing it?
What happened was that the circular was received. At a meeting of the Wages Board on 16th April, 1964, in connection with the making of an amending wages order, the Secretary of the Agricultural Wages Board drew attention to the following extract, Paragraph 21, of the circular, which reads:
The Government regard it as being of the utmost importance that every instrument affecting the public in any way (and in particular every instrument in connection with which penalties may be imposed) should be available to the public not later than the date on which it comes into operation. Departments should bear in mind the very grave consequences which may follow from failure on their part to ensure that no member of the public may in any circumstances, render himself liable to penalties for an infringement of an instrument without having first had an opportunity of becoming aware of its terms...
It continues:
The chairman indicated that, allowing for adequate publicity, the earliest date on which the order could come into operation would be Monday, 4th May, 1964.
Surely the Minister is aware that the ruling given by the chairman on the particular circular was not the interpretation which the Minister put on it?
I am reading an extract from minutes.
Surely the Minister will agree that the ruling given by the chairman of the board was not the interpretation which the Minister has now given to the extract which he has read out?
I have been reading an extract from the minutes. The board met on 16th April and decided to make this amending order. The chairman drew attention to this Finance circular saying that, in all fairness, everybody likely to be affected by an order should be aware of its contents. The chairman said that a fortnight, roughly, would be the time involved in giving an opportunity to bring it to the notice of everybody concerned and said that 4th May would be the earliest date that this would be applied.
I shall raise this matter by way of another question because the Minister is referring to a later meeting than the one to which the question refers