asked the Minister for Education why, having regard to the fact that architects, consultant mechanical and consultant structural engineers and a quantity surveyor have been appointed for the provision of the regional technical college in Cork, it was necessary to appoint the consortium known as Building Design Associates to act as consultants to the consultants already appointed; if he will give details of the respective duties which will be assigned to the original consultants and to Building Design Associates, and of how the fees when ascertained will be allocated between the respective persons in question.
Ceisteanna—Questions (Resumed). - Cork Regional Technical College.
32.
Mr. Barrett
Mr. O'Malley
I would refer the Deputy to the replies given by me to recent Parliamentary Questions on this matter.
I consider that, having regard to the special research carried out by Building Design Associates and to the wide scope of their expertise, substantial benefits will accrue from the arrangement whereby they will act as consultants in relation to the provision of Regional Technical Colleges in the centres, including Cork, where architects had been already engaged.
Arrangements of detail in regard to duties and fees are primarily matters to be resolved by the professional parties concerned in joint consultation.
Mr. Barrett
Could the Minister tell the House the substantial benefits that will accrue and to whom they will accrue?
To Fianna Fáil Party members.
Mr. Barrett
Would the Minister also tell us if it is true that Building Design Associates have approached the already appointed consultants with a view to taking over the whole job in question?
Mr. O'Malley
The answer to the second part of the supplementary question is no. In regard to the first part, I endeavoured to answer it. I said, having regard to the special research—
All things being equal.
Mr. O'Malley
What is wrong with that?
Nothing, except that some people are more equal than others.
(Interruptions.)
Mr. O'Malley
I said that having regard to the special research carried out by Building Design Associates and to the wide scope of their expertise——
(Interruptions.)
It cost him £2,000 and he only got £300 so far.
If the Deputy makes that statement outside the House, I will have him selling another Mercedes——
Mr. Barrett
Would the Minister be good enough to repeat the reply as I could not hear it?
Mr. O'Malley
Yes. I said in my answer that having regard to the special research carried out by Building Design Associates and to the wide scope of their expertise, substantial benefits will accrue from the arrangement whereby they will act as consultants in relation to the provision of Regional Technical Colleges in the centres, including Cork, where architects have already been engaged. I might also say that the size and repetitive character of the buildings required at the four centres to which the consortium's appointment primarily relates, would justify the development of a building system, based on coordinated modular principles, for the whole project. The use of such a system will, it is estimated, mean a saving in cost in the region of ten per cent as compared with the cost of buildings erected by traditional methods of construction. The co-ordination of effort aimed at both preplanning and building methods will, it is estimated, result in a reduction of about 20 per cent in normal building time. The use of a modular system as envisaged will achieve considerable freedom at the planning stage for room sizes and, in the future, for probable change, re-arrangements and extensions.
Mr. Barrett
In regard to the second part of my question, would the Minister make further inquiries into the allegation I have made, that Building Design Associates have approached the already appointed consultants with a view to taking over the whole job? I believe that to be true and the Minister tells me it is not. I should be glad if he would state that he does not believe it.
Mr. O'Malley
I understand that the position is not this at all, that any discussions that have taken place with the Cork groups who have been appointed—Messrs. O'Flynn and Green, the architects, the consultant mechanical engineer, Mr. B.K. Reilly, of Messrs. Varming, Mulcahy Reilly Associates, the consultant constructural engineer, Mr. John O'Donovan, and the quantity surveyor, Mr. James Sheehan—have been discussions with Building Design Associates simply on the specialist knowledge and research that Building Design Associates are putting into this project, and as a result of which they have visited several countries to get the information which is not available to these individual firms in the seven or eight areas throughout Ireland. The whole purpose of having a consortium was to avoid the need for repetition and having the groups in the eight areas going off to do research on their own. I might say that Deputy Barrett does not seem to grasp this. He seems to think that I will have further consultants appointed. The analogy might not be a strong one but it would be like having a solicitor to handle a case with two junior counsel and they might have two senior counsel. Building Design Associates are the people who have done the research in consultation and co-operation with the steering committee. I think this proposal is an eminently sound one, sound from the point of view of time and particularly from the point of view of the economics.
Mr. Barrett
Would the Minister answer the question which I put to him: Is he aware that Building Design Associates has entered into intensive negotiations with the already appointed consultants to take over the whole job? The Minister has been speaking for three minutes and he has not replied to that.
Mr. O'Malley
I have replied to the Deputy that I have approved of the names of the firms appointed by the Cork group. I am aware that discussions are taking place between this group and Building Design Associates and I am also aware that there is no question of Building Design Associates taking over the entire Cork job. The Deputy can rest assured of that.