Vol. 232 No. 1
asked the Minister for Transport and Power the date upon which CIE first notified to him their intention to increase fares and charges; and if he will now hold a public inquiry into the matter, and suspend the increased charges pending the result of such inquiry.
26.
asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he is aware of the serious hardship caused to users of CIE services as a result of the increases in passenger and freight charges; and what steps he proposes to take to remedy this situation.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 25 and 26 together.
I should explain, in the first instance, that under section 8 of the Transport Act, 1958, CIE are free to fix such charges as the Board thinks fit for any service provided by them.
CIE first informed me in January, 1967, of the need to increase fares and rates to meet increased labour and material costs. In accordance with the policy of the Government to defer as far as possible the impact on prices of rising costs, I encouraged the Board to postpone the application of the increases and to intensify their efforts to improve revenue by new business and higher productivity. The Board have in fact deferred the increases to the fullest practical extent consistent with maintaining solvency.
I see no need to hold a public inquiry into this matter. I am fully satisfied, in view of the Board's present financial position, that the Board had no alternative but to increase rates and fares.
I am however aware that there has been some public concern about the increases in CIE's weekly fares for school children on provincial bus and rail services, which in some cases, I understand, represented increases of the order of 100 per cent on existing charges.
CIE have informed me that the weekly fares for school children had been abnormally low and that, with the introduction of a free transport scheme for school children by the Minister for Education, the Board had decided to establish an economic fare structure for children not covered by or not availing of the free transport scheme. The increases were not related to the general increase in the Board's fares and rates but represented a rationalisation of school children's fares. Even with the increases, CIE's weekly fares for school children are lower than the corresponding fares in Nothern Ireland.
CIE received many representations in this matter and, following consultations with me, they have decided to defer the full implementation of the rationalisation policy. Accordingly, as and from 5th February next the fares for children under 16 years will be reduced from half to approximately ? the adult fare and, for children under 19 years, from ¾ to approximately ? the adult fare.
The Minister stated that he was aware of the public concern regarding the increase in fares applicable to school-children, but is he not aware of the widespread and very strong public concern regarding the general all-round increase in fares, particularly as they affect the workers living in the Dublin suburban areas who have to use the buses to travel to work and in many cases have to use a bus to get to the central city area and perhaps use another bus to get to another suburban or near-suburban area to their place of employment? Has he no knowledge of the concern that this has caused and of the considerable increase in living costs to such people that the bus fare increases have caused? Does he propose to take any steps to lighten the intolerable burden of continuously increasing fares which has been unremittingly imposed on these workers?
The Deputy may not make a speech on these questions.
The House has voted a subvention of £2 million a year and pending the period in which the subvention is paid, it would be most inadvisable to increase continuously the subsidy to a company like CIE. Further, if the Deputy would examine the increase in earnings in the past few years of the workers themselves he would find that the increases in fares, while they may bear heavily on certain sections of the population, did relate reasonably to the increase in earnings which they secured in the same period. The view of the Government is that the subsidy should remain where it is until it can be examined in connection with a new Bill which will be brought to this House some time about the autumn of 1968 or the beginning of 1969.
Might I inquire if the Minister recalls the speech made some time ago by the General Manager of CIE in which he said for the first time that this concern accepted the fact that it was not in business to make a profit and that it was in fact a social service? Does the Minister now accept this fact which he has denied for several years?
I have never denied that a good portion of the CIE operations constitute a social service. I gave information to the House about a very large number of bus services within Dublin city which actually lose money, and that there was a cross subsidy from the services within Dublin city that made a profit. I pointed out that all over the country there are bus services and rail services which lose money which constitute a social service. The all-round loss is occasioned, as the Deputy knows, on the railway service and not on the bus service. Although the profit on buses is now minimal, the total subvention of £2 million a year which is the equivalent of 4d per gallon of petrol is a reasonable subsidy. In addition, I have had the opportunity of studying the problem of rail transport in Europe at the European Conference of Ministers for Transport and making comparisons of the costs and I am satisfied that we have made a reasonable decision.
The people are not satisfied.
Deputy O'Hara.
Arising out of the Minister's reply——
I have called Deputy O'Hara.
Does the Minister recall that a former Minister responsible for CIE, Deputy Lemass, said that dieselisation of CIE would lead to a reduction in freight rates? Can the Minister reconcile his statement with that of Deputy Lemass at the time?
Persons in charge of transport in this country have all shown some slight over-optimism at different times. I could quote Deputy Morrissey, who was in charge of CIE, and Deputy Norton. They all expressed, along with Ministers in Europe, some optimism as to whether or not a railway could be made pay for itself but there is no railway in the whole of Europe that balances its accounts.
It is lately that dawned on you. We have been saying that for many years.
In view of the fact that the Minister has indicated that he regards the railways as a social service, how does he explain the closure of the only railway line through the Waterford constituency?
That is a separate question.
But in view of his statement that he regarded the railway service as a social amenity?
That question does not arise. Question No. 27.
Might I ask the Minister——
I am calling Question No. 27 by Deputy Ryan.
Members will note that there are 218 questions for oral answer on today's Paper. If we are to make any worthwhile progress through them, supplementary questions should be limited in number. It is trusted that Members will co-operate in this matter.
I appreciate that, but I have a supplementary question to ask.
I have allowed eight supplementaries on questions relating to CIE. I am now calling Question No. 27.
27.
asked the Minister for Transport and Power if he will say in respect of the last ten years the dates upon which the fares or charges of CIE were increased; and the percentage increase in revenue on each occasion.
As the reply is in the form of a tabular statement, I propose, with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, to have it circulated with the Official Report.
For the convenience of the Deputy, I have shown in the statement the total increase in rates and fares between May, 1958, and January, 1968. Increases in rates and fares are only of significance if compared with other relevant economic data. Figures are also set out in the statement, therefore, showing the increase in the consumer price index and in the average weekly earnings in transportable goods industries between 1958 and 1967.
1. DATES of increases in CIE fares and rates since 1958 and the estimated percentage increase in revenue secured on each occasion.
|
Date of increase |
Services |
Estimated Percentage Increase in Revenue |
|
12/5/1958 |
Rail and Road Passenger only |
3.5 |
|
18/1/1960 |
Dublin City Services |
4.7 |
|
1/2/1960 |
All other Services |
|
|
15/1/1962 |
Dublin City Services |
6.5 |
|
29/1/1962 |
Provincial Road Passenger Services (City) |
|
|
1/2/1962 |
All other Services |
|
|
16/3/1964 |
All Services |
8.1 |
|
13/6/1966 |
All Services |
7.5 |
|
1/1/1968 |
All Services |
8.3 (expected) |
2. TOTAL increase in CIE fares and rates between 1958 and 1968.
|
Passenger Fares: |
|
|
Standard Rail fares |
53.8% |
|
Standard Provincial Bus fares |
57.7% |
|
Dublin City Bus services—average fare per passenger journey |
73.2% |
|
Standard Freight Rates: |
|
|
Rail Freight |
51.9% |
|
Road Freight |
51.0% |
|
3. INCREASE in Consumer Price Index between February, 1958 and November, |
1967 33.7% |
|
4. INCREASE in average weekly earnings in Transportable Goods Industries between March, 1958, and September, 1967 |
|
|
83.9% |
