Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 Feb 1968

Vol. 232 No. 4

Request to Move Adjournment of Dáil Under Standing Order 29.

Mr. S. Dunne

I ask leave to move the adjournment of the Dáil to promote discussion of the following matter, namely, clarification of the Taoiseach's statement of 31st January in relation to Proportional Representation in the following respects:

(a) the Taoiseach indicated his Party's intention to cause a referendum to be held for the purpose of securing two separate results, namely, the abolition of Proportional Representation and the institution of a new population basis for Dáil representation which is offensive to the principle of One Man-One Vote: the recent statement of a Government Minister to the effect that both these issues, which are separate, will be put to the people as one question and will allow only one answer has caused considerable public disquiet;

(b) Members of the Dáil feel that there is an obligation on the Taoiseach to state the reasons which influenced him to seek this fundamental change in our constitutional law in the absence of any public demand whatsoever; and

(c) the Taoiseach has not informed the country of the probable cost of this operation in terms of Parliamentary time, printing, interruption of work and general interference in the working of the economy.

Discussion of this matter is urgent because any proposal to alter the Constitution is necessarily so far-reaching in its nature. The Government have a duty to provide the citizens with the maximum time possible for its consideration.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank Deputy Dunne for having given me notice yesterday of his intention to request leave to move the adjournment of the Dáil on a definite matter of urgent public importance. The precedents of the House require that, to be urgent as prescribed in Standing Order 29, the matter must be of such a nature that delay in discussing it might prevent effective action being taken.

The Chair has considered the Deputy's request very carefully and I have come to the conclusion that the matter does not satisfy this requirement of urgency. I must therefore rule that the motion is not one contemplated by Standing Orders.

Mr. S. Dunne

With respect, may I submit that in the light of the fact that statements as to the Government's intentions have been made, in the customary Fianna Fáil manner, outside this House and that no statement has been made to the Members of this House in respect to this proposed fundamental change, it does therefore qualify properly to be described as a matter of urgency and there does devolve on Dáil Éireann a responsibility to afford the people of Ireland the longest possible time to consider the implications and the undemocratic nature of the proposal. I should like also, with great respect, to draw your attention to the fact that the Constitution Committee which examined this, among other matters, were engaged on their labours for longer than a year. In the light of that and in the light of the possibility, and the strong probability, that this legislation, which seeks to undermine our democratic rights, will be rushed on the country, there is on the Chair, on us all, an obligation to discuss the matter immediately and fully, in detail, so that the public will know exactly what they are in for.

Mr. Corish

It is a matter of public importance and the urgency of the request by Deputy Dunne depends on the attitude of the Government on this. Could the Taoiseach say when these proposals will be introduced, when they will be taken and on what date the Government anticipate the referendum will be held?

The Taoiseach

I will not be drawn into a debate on this. The matter has been proposed in the democratic way as laid down by the Constitution. Legislation will be introduced in accordance with Articles 46 and 47 of the Constitution. It will have to be promulgated to the people. It will have to be debated and enacted by this House and by the Seanad. A referendum will be presented to the people. If there is anything more democratic than that I should like Deputy Dunne to tell me what it is.

Mr. Corish

Would the Taoiseach be in a position to answer the question as to when——

Mr. Dillon

On a point of order, either you admit Deputy Dunne's motion under the relevant Standing Order or you do not admit it. If the Parliamentary Labour Party, the Taoiseach and everybody else are to join in this discussion, then let us have a free-for-all. Either it is relevant or it is not. If it is not, it ought to stop; if it is, then we all demand a hand in it.

Mr. Corish

Might I point out, and Deputy Dillon must be aware of it because of his experience in the House, that discussions of the kind in which we are now engaged have several precedents——

Mr. Dillon

No——

Mr. Corish

Yes. They are there——

Mr. Dillon

I should be very glad to discuss it but the Chair has ruled.

Mr. S. Dunne

The point I am making is to establish that this is an urgent matter. What I am seeking is clarification of the special requirement. There is a definite effort being made to confuse this in the public mind.

Mr. Haughey

Order.

The Taoiseach

There is only one way to do it and that is the way it is being done.

An Ceann Comhairle

There will be no further discussion on the matter.

Mr. S. Dunne

We will take the matter up again.

Mr. Corish

I wish to put a reasonable question to the Taoiseach. Is he in a position to say when the legislation will be introduced in the House and when is it anticipated by the Government that the referendum will take place, provided the legislation is passed?

The Taoiseach

The legislation is now in process of being prepared. It will be introduced immediately it is ready, probably in a week or two. The Second Reading will take place afterwards and enactment of the legislation will depend on the length of the debate here and in the Seanad. The subsequent bringing forward of the referendum will also depend on the length of the debate. I cannot anticipate the length of these things.

Mr. Corish

The Taoiseach appreciates that on the Order Paper there are many important measures, plus provision for discussion on the various Estimates, plus the financial business, including the Budget. Does he think we can afford to waste the time of the House and of the country by talking about constitutional changes——

The Taoiseach

The Constitution is important, too.

Mr. James Tully

The present Constitution does not seem to be very important to the present Government.

Mr. S. Dunne

You are signing your own political death warrant.

The Taoiseach

Why not let us away with it, then?

Mr. S. Dunne

Because we do not want this waste of time. It is coming to you anyway in the next election.

Mr. Coughlan

There would not be any God if that did not happen.

Mr. S. Dunne

You think you have the country in your pocket—that you have purchased one half and intimidated the other.

Mr. Boland

Six by-elections in succession.

Mr. S. Dunne

I will have something to say to you when you start lifting your voice again.